A primer on etiquette

Stolen from a post by one our players at the BITW game, mainly for consistency in addressing nobles.

This is mainly for tone (it's not about to become an etiquette test), but should also help everyone give insult when desired and remind all of you to pick on and despise bastards.

"
So since I like my authenticity, and others may not have quite so extensively researched all the minutiae of the setting as I have (I'm a bit extreme in that regard to be perfectly honest), I thought I might slap together a little guide that I believe some would find useful:

Lords:

Technically, in order to be a lord, you must have the right to pit and gallows in your domain granted by the king. This is the only real difference between lord and landed knight, there are examples of the latter type that are considerably more powerful and influential than quite a few lords. And lords should always be addressed as lord when spoken to. However, any noble can be addressed as lord as an honorific, and smallfolk will typically do that. Non-lord members of the small council typically will be given this honorific, as would heirs to lords and sons too young yet to be knighted. Though it is probably more common to use the ser prefix for sons of lords that qualify for it.

Of special note is how you use the prefix. "
Lord Bartheld"
is reserved for Brom alone, because that denotes the lord of house bartheld. While his grandson (who is effectively the acting lord) would be addressed as "
Lord Davain"
, at least by those wanting to be respectful (or give that impression), not giving that honorific would be a sign of ill-will, but not quite an insult, not addressing Brom as lord would definitely be an insult. Note that "
Lord Brom"
is equally accepted as form of address as "
Lord Bartheld"
, the latter is a bit more stiff and formal.

A lord can typically be recognized by wearing a signet ring, and often the sigil of his house visible.

Knights

All it takes to be a knight is to be knighted, and any knight can make a knight. The form of address is always Ser <
first name>
or Ser <
full name>
, Ser Corbin is usually how you address the man, while Ser Corbin Celtigar would be what you'd say to others to let them know that he's a celtigar. You would never use Ser Celtigar. It is also an insult not to address a knight as ser (unless you address him as lord instead).

The importance of knighthood is that you enter the noble class, maybe on the very low end, and hedge knights tends to not be included even so. It gives you the right to present your case and call witnesses in front of the lord that sits in judgement if you are accused of wrongdoing, as well as the right to trial by combat. Further, your trueborn children will also have that right, just like other nobles, however, it is not always easy to get that right recognized. Additionally, it is expected that the one arranging the knighting supplies warhorse, arms and armor, and a position in his household (so one would not knight someone one wouldn't want to "
pay"
with equipment, food and lodging, this part is less relevant for nobles squiring for other lords, then returning to his own lands.)

Of additional note is that Westeros is a class-based society. If a man is not knighted, then the rest of the knightly class will look down upon him (and almost all nobles are knighted), something is obviously wrong if no knight can vouch for his martial prowess and courtly manners. Being anointed with the seven oils and dubbed on the shoulder seven times with the sword is the coming-of-age rite for highborn boys. In some tourneys (especially in the Reach), any non-knight can forget about being allowed to take part (the joust in particular).

Knights usually wear the arms of their house to show that they are knights (house by birth, so Ser Rowan Clay would bear the arms of House Clay, or if he's the founder by being knighted, then he chooses his personal arms that then becomes those of his sons etc..he would not use Bartheld's arms, but he might decide to play on the Bartheld theme as a show of loyalty).

Ladies

Any woman, maid (or even girl) being the daughter or wife of a noble ought to be addressed as lady. There isn't much differentiating them from each other, or even non-nobles (apart from clothing and such). Now, it could be that "
Lady Bartheld"
specifically denotes the lady of the house, which only Ayleth qualifies for, it makes sense to me, but I cannot say how much support there is for that in the setting material, and it may well be that there are contradictions in the books. Could be that it's simply a honorific sometimes used without any universally accepted norm.

Bastards

A bastard is someone born out of wedlock. If both parents are smallfolk, nobody gives a shit. If the father is noble and the mother isn't, then he may decide to acknowledge the child, which grants the bastard surname and the rights afforded to nobility (trial and such), and it is expected that the father provides for the child (knighthood for boys, decent marriage for girls). If the mother is a noble then the child automatically gain the bastard surename and the rights afforded a noble. It is, however, the father's duty to provide for the child, and it is considered extremely rude for a nobleman not to acknowledge the child and take responsibility for it.

But there's of course the stigma. Bastards are born out of lust, and yadda yadda yadda. It is considered an insult to his wife for a nobleman to raise a bastard within his own household, read more on the wiki. Bastards are not truly members of the house of their parents, they may still inherit if there are no other trueborn claimant, but inheritance in westeros is often more about who has the power to ascend to lordship than who has the right of it (most times, the designated heir are both those things). Bastard knights may not use their father's sigil, though they often invert the colors.

Further, bastards are usually not given any prefix when addressed with the exception of knights (because knights are made, not born).

The meaning of all this?

I'm a puritan when it comes to playing in the setting, at least as far as the things that requires no big change in playstyle, such as form of address, I've seen at least one example here of people that probably did not know. Also, I should like that everyone adds a little line in their signature denoting one's title. Maesters, septons and septas are obviously addressed as such. A knight, lord or lady will likely dress such that others recognize them as such so that social blunders may be avoided. A non-knighted nobleman might be addressed as "
master"
for example, should one wish to be polite.

And everyone should pick on the bastards :p"

On the use of titles, I understand it as a great compliment that the good narrator keeps adressing me as Ser Kevan even in OOC threads:P

May be pointed out that Davain could possibly count as Lord Bartheld in this game (he didn't in BITW and SA, but Brom had a much stronger presence in those).

Wait I thought was already the Lord. Has Brom usurped me? That slimy bastard.

Davain Bartheld wrote:Wait I thought was already the Lord. Has Brom usurped me? That slimy bastard.

No, Brom is your father. You don't inherit the House until he dies.

Brom is my grandfather, Davain's parents are died. If I remember correctly Brom was force to step dow which caused the fight for Lordship between Davain and Fendrel.

He wasn't forced to step down. He abandoned his post to chase Yve Tullison. He's still technically Head of House Bartheld.

Unless he's stripped of title, yes. Theo goes with Lord Davain to walk around the problem. That being said, I think there's a case for using Lord Bartheld for Davain to recognize that he's de facto lord. Technically incorrect, and technically an insult against Brom if he's technically lord. But it doesn't sound like Brom would take offense.

Davain is confirmed as Lord Bartheld by now due to politicking in Season 1. It was one of House Bartheld's objectives (to secure either heir candidate as head of House), and they completed it.