[D2, Mid Morning]Building Consensus (Closed)

In the Coldbrook tents, during breakfast, Daveth made sure to grab his brother, and sit together with him next to Ser Jorah Holt, a little distant from other parties, where they may discuss matters discreetly.

"
Gentlemen."
he says, looking to each, to make sure he has their attention. "
I seek your support in a matter. Speaking frankly, our house has many issues. Key among them our lack of prestige. Our strengths are primarily limited to our excellent troops. I have an idea for how to use the latter to mitigate the former, but I feel it is a matter in which I should seek your agreement and consensus before presenting it to our Lord and Lady as a unified front.

"
House Marsten is having an unfortunate time recently, and the Mountain clans are pushing for advantage. However, the respect they are held in is undiminished. Should our house offer support against the clans, we have a good opportunity to gain prestige for our house, at none of the political cost should we become involved in feuds between two houses, or should we support the losing side in a house's civil conflict.

"
Further, should Garret"
nodding towards his brother "
lead our men, that would prove his worth to the world. Which we could guarantee by surrounding him with skilled advisers"
nodding towards Ser Jorah.

"
Will you support me in this endeavour to convince our Lord and Lady that it is a prudent course of action for Lady Coldbrook to meet with Lady Isobel Marsten to discuss the details of this proposal? I think it would go over well with Lady Marsten for our Lord to entrust his full authority to his Lady wife in this matter."
Not to mention that my Lord father would be a liability in those negotiations.

Having spoken his piece, he cautiously looks at his companions for their reactions.

"
Thu Marshtens y'say,"
Garret replied over a mouthful of porridge before he received a cuff from Ser Jorah. The Coldbrook fare was decidedly plain on order of his Lord Father. Simple foods breed strong discipline. The words echoed in Garret's ears, drawing a smile. Wiping his lips on the back of his sleeve, he repeated, "
The Marsents. Funny enough, I've had the chance to meet a young lady from that House. Lady Gwyneth Marsten. I'll take any opportunity to see more of her"
He grinned at his younger brother.

"
The Riders don't have much experience fighting in mountain terrain, but that's nothing some training can't fix. If Ser Jorah can help oversee the training, and perhaps a Marsten man to help show us the mountain passes, then I'd wage Coldbrook steel against any mountain clan. But do you think the Marstens would let a tree-worshiping, Northern bastard protect their lands? Southerners can be...prickly about that"

Daveth nods, and grins in response. "
A fair question, and one I've had myself. I don't have an answer for you yet, but I should do within the next day or two. I was speaking with a knight in service to the Marstens last night about if, in his opinion, the idea was a non-starter or not. He wasn't sure, but offered to gently float the idea to Lady Marsten. I agreed on the condition that he make clear that I was in no position to do anything other than suggest the idea to Lord Coldbrook, and that we had committed to nothing save considering the idea. If we can convince Lord and Lady Coldbrook to be interested, and he returns saying that Lady Marsten is interested, we'll proceed. Else,"
he shrugs "
we move onto the next idea. Maybe the Barthelds?"

Ser Jorah cuffed Garrett for speaking with his mouth full.
"
Manners boy, do you want others to think you have no breeding!"
The boy was a good man and a good fighter, but making him act with breeding was a losing cause.

He considered what would work against the Mountain Clans.
"
Cavalry in the mountains is not much use, they lose their primary advantage of speed and it is a wooded region. The garrison and Lord Coldbrook's personal guard would be the better options to use."


"
Perhaps we should work on both options;
the Marstens offer us the potential to use our greatest resource, our military, but the Barthelds might offer the chance to gain a friend without the need for bloodshed."


"
I had a few other thoughts. We need to find a maester or two to redraw local maps to show that we control Castle Grenward now. If we can also talk to Lady Tully, that would go a long way to establishing the House. I also need to contact Lord Tullison to resolve the issue from last night. Considering his reaction, he owes House Coldbrook an apology and recognition of our House would suffice."


ooc
[url=Strategy in the mountains][/url]: 4d6k3 10

Daveth carefully placed his spoon down before talking, in a slightly exaggerated fashion, looking towards Garret in a challenging manner designed to manipulate his brother into attempting to out-etiquette him. It's an old game between them, but never a pointless one.

"
You make good points, Ser Jorah. I will admit the military implications had escaped me. Though your comment about the Barthelds does raise a point of what can we offer, and who should we approach, given our lack of knowledge of the balance of power or the players involved? Offering troops to keep bandits at bay may be useful, but it can also be cast as a sign of weakness, which I'm sure they wouldn't appreciate. We could offer recognition, but our word is effectively meaningless. What do you say?

"
Your best point is undoubtedly that of getting the Tullys to redraw the map, a point I hadn't even considered. In fact, I feel that is best approached today, while they still remember who we are from the bread and salt ceremony. Shall we see if we can meet them after the pagentry display this evening?

"
The only place where I think you may be overreaching is in asking Lord Tullyson for an apology. I fear he and his kin will simply deny all knowledge, and claim it's unreasonable to expect them to know of it, if they don't deny it happened entirely. A ridiculous, shameless position, but not one I'd put past them. By all means, ask. But don't get your hopes up."

Garret silently accepted Daveth's challenge with a smile, setting his spoon next to the bowl and straightening his back. "
You are right about the cavalry in the mountains, Ser Jorah and the offer of my Lord Father's personal guard would demonstrate our sincerity to House Marsten."


He considered for a moment, recalling one of Jorah's lessons in tactics. "
The clans are a major threat to the Marstens, but what if they need not be? For centuries the knights of the Vale have killed the clansmen, and the clansmen have killed the knights of the Vale. What if we offered a second way? What if instead of killing their fathers and sons, we offered the mountain clans steel and discipline. Offer them food for their children. We could make the clansman who accept terms of peace part of the Coldbrook guard, teach them to fight, give them better weapons and armor. Try to earn their loyalty. The proud old warrior would refuse, but others might accept. Make the clans fight for the Marstens instead of against them. Isn't that what you've tried to teach me so many times, Ser Jorah? Turn every weakness into an advantage?"

"
Hmm, it is certainly an idea, but the clansmen are not so easily convinced. Some might, certainly a clan that has been weakened would be a good place to start, but there is a lot of bad blood that would need to be overcome."

Daveth fine-tunes his posture, and more carefully enunciates his words.

"
It sounds like, irrespective of the details, you're both in an accord with me regarding the idea. Should we perhaps decamp from here to locate my Lord father forthwith and discuss the matter with him involved? Should we convince him of the validity of the idea, his military insight, and my Lady mother's political knowledge, would prove invaluable to our deliberations. And should we not, no such deliberations are necessary.

"
Naturally, they have both already finished breaking their fast, so I imagine we can find them in their tent."

Ser Jorah spent a moment composing a note, before handing it to one of the senior guardsmen.

"
See to it that this is delivered to House Tullison and await an appropriate response from them before reporting back to me."
He was intent on fixing the issue that occured yesterday, hopefully without bloodshed or compromise, but the liklihood of that was remote.


"
Shall we then?"
Ser Jorah stood up and followed Daveth to Lord and Lady Coldbrook's tent.

Daveth leads the group to his parents' tent, meeting Captain Kieran Orell outside. Daveth nods. "
Good morning, Captain. Are my parents within?"

"
Aye, but our mother is still fragile,"
Captain Orell is serious, but gestures for the party to enter.

Even as the prepare to enter, Lord Coldbrook barks out in his battlefield voice.

"
Report."


It is a command, rather than a question.

Daveth nods his thanks to Captain Orell. "
Thank you, Captain."
and leads the trio inside his father's tent. Hopefully he'll be more amenable once he realises I'm not alone.

At the appropriate distance, he kneels before Lord Tomas Coldbrook. "
My Lord Father,"
he then deferentially nods towards his mother. "
Lady Mother,"
then back to Lord Coldbrook, without rising. "
We wish to discuss with you an opportunity to advance our house. We have discussed it between ourselves, and we all believe the idea to be good. Can you spare us the time to hear our proposal now?"


Because while you might quite happily make me give the entire proposal on my knees, you wouldn't do the same to Garret or Ser Jorah, and letting them stand and me not would just be a *little* too pointed. Father.

No words for the scholar "
son"
, simply a nod and a gesture to stand.

Lord Coldbrook does not speak, simply staring at Daveth until he speaks.

Ser Jorah entered the tent and knelt, "
Lord Coldbrook, Daveth has a proposal that should aid in advancing House Coldbrook."


He turned to look at Lady Coldbrook, "
My lady,"
his voice was softer and apologetic.

Rising to his feet along at the same time as Daveth and Ser Jorah, Garret placed a reassuring hand on Daveth's shoulder. Lord Tomas would have gladly accepted the information from his martial son, but this had been Daveth's plan and he deserved all the credit. If he was to be the lord that Garret believed he could be, he would need to be able to speak firmly.

Garret made a silent prayer that Daveth kept his words short and to the point. Lord Coldbrook was at his heart a soldier, and had never been known for his patience.

Daveth stands. Thank you, father. with only a small trace of dryness in the thought And thank you, Garret. when he feels the hand on his shoulder, with none.

Still, brevity. Not exactly my strongest area. "
Thank you, Father. As Garret discovered,"
nodding his head towards his brother, The credit is not all mine, brother "
House Marsten is being solely pressed by the mountain clans, worse than rumour says. This is compounded by much of their military strength being in banner houses, at least one of whom, House Kriegar, at the moment is rather upset with them. We have what they need. Likewise, they are an old, respected house, with a lot of prestige and 'soft' power. They have what we want.

"
My proposal is simply that we offer them our military assistance against the clans, obviously at the highest price we can get. Ideally, a marriage between our houses. This military outing would be led by Garret,"
a small gesture towards his brother "
giving him an opportunity to show his skill to the world, in a manner none may deny. Ably advised and assisted by Ser Jorah."
a small gesture towards the knight.

"
There's a few more details to throw in, but that's the fundamental part of the plan. What do you think so far?"

"
Garret and Ser Jorah have never disappointed me."
The implication is clear.

"
Marriages are secondary concerns. Securing our title to Castle Grenward should be our first priority."


"
Continue."

Are you truly so blind that you can't see how, long-term, marriage will get us a secured title and much more? Daveth glances over at his mother to gauge her reaction to her husband's statement.

[url=Assessing Mother's opinion][/url]: 3d6 16 (Why...on the rolls that don't really matter...?)

"
According to Ser Jorah's analysis,"
Again, credit where it's due "
our Riverroad Riders would be of no use in the mountains. Which means we'd have to send in the Company of the Morningstar, who should be supported by Company Grenward, despite it not being the ideal use of a garrison. The sooner we drive the clans back, the sooner we're back to full strength, and the more prestige Garret would gain."


Always link it back to Garret. I know where your weak spot is, father.

"
To consider alternative uses of our power to gain political influence? There are a few internal conflicts in which we could support one faction over another, but that not only runs the risk of the other faction winning, and us losing all benefit, and gaining an enemy to boot, or even entering a conflict with a third party supporting the other faction. It's much, much riskier. The clans have no friends. Killing them is a pure positive. Although Garret"
again, nodding towards his brother "
has an interesting idea on how to approach the problem from a different angle, which may prove even more effective.

"
What I'm not sure of is if Lady Isobel Marsten would be willing to accept our help. One of her knights should get back to me within the next day or two to tell me if it would be a waste of time to arrange a sit-down on the subject, having carefully sounded her out on the basic principles while making clear that no commitment has been made.

"
If she is willing to negotiate the matter, Father, I humbly suggest that my Lady Mother negotiate with her, with your full authority. Lady Marsten has ruled alone for many years, no doubt against many who say a woman is unsuited for such a task. By giving your lady wife such authority, you are expressing sympathy with her position before the negotiations even begin, a very valuable action against someone so formidable."


And there's your excuse to avoid the negotiation with your honour intact. Aren't I a dutiful son?

"
Aside from Garret's idea, that is as far as our plans have come, but I'll let him detail that part."
It's bold and risky. He can sell that a lot better than I can.

Garret could not contain his smile. His little brother had done well. Lord Tomas had not given an inch, but Daveth had spoken with the confidence of a seasoned adviser. All the ground work had been laid, and now it was Garret's turn to try his hand.

"
Lord Coldbrook,"
inclining his head in respect, Garret referred to his father by his noble title. He needed to appeal to him not as a son, but as a fellow soldier who Lord Tomas would respect. Daveth was not wrong, the plan was bold but risky. Never Falter, Garret.

"
Daveth is correct, my Lord. The clans have no friends, only enemies. But that could be an advantage to us. The mountain clans fight over scraps of land with wooden weapons and bits of rusted iron. Their children are hungry, their women are cold, and everything that they have can be taken in an instant by rival clans or the knights of the Vale. But what if we were to offer the carrot instead of the stick? We offer them weapons, food, decent clothing, perhaps even land if it can be found. We teach them discipline, and make them strong enough to fight rival clans and defend what is theirs. And in return, they agree to accept the King's Peace and no longer plague our prospective allies in the Marstens. Many would refuse, but others would see the opportunity for what it is. It would be difficult work, but the mountain clans of the North are not so different and they have sworn fealty to the Starks of Winterfell for centuries. What could be done once, can be done again. You have always taught me that it is will that wins the day, Lord Coldbrook. Let us show the Marstens, the Tullys and every Southron Lord that House Coldbrook has a will of true Northern iron"

[OOC: Lady Coldbrook nods at her son's suggestion on marriages and frowns when her husband pays the attention little heed. If anything she seems pleased that it was merely relegated to a secondary matter rather than contradicted outright]

"
Negotiation is a battlefield - hard words may be said and your lady mother is too weak of spirit with that Tullison thug present."


It is unclear whether Lady Coldbrook has been consulted on this matter or not.

"
As you cannot represent me on the true battlefield, you can at least serve our house on this one."


He adds with a note of grudging respect.

"
You speak truly on the dangers of using cavalry in mountainous terrain, at least you know how to follow advice from those who understand war."


He turns to Garret.

"
My son, your plan is as bold as I would hope for from my blood. Give the clans steel either way - in their hands if we can trust them or in their bellies if you judge them dangerous or ill-disciplined."


[OOC: there may be political consequences to arming the mountain clans, but it might win you power and save lives...]

At hearing his father's grudging respect, Daveth feels his heart swell with pride. Every scrap of respect was hard-earned and highly-valued. And then the consequences of what his father actually *said* hit him. Me? Against Lady Marsten? You might as well pit me against the Company of the Morningstar! Does he understand how skilled she must be to maintain power as a woman for so long?

"
I- I hear and obey, father. I'll need Ser Jorah beside me to check the military side of matters, which I hope won't be a problem. Aside from that, you have made our house's objectives clear,"
though I may interpret them with some creativity "
should the negotiation go ahead, how much authority to speak for you are you granting me? "


(OOC: basically, I'm assuming that I'm being given the power to negotiate a deal, which I then have to take back to Lord Coldbrook for approval, rather than having the power to shake on it myself. But I want it to be clear, so I don't over-step my bounds.)

Lord Coldbrook talks Daveth through the particulars of what he will accept, before dismissing the delegation.

[OOC: power to negotiate a deal, with Lord Coldbrook rubber-stamping it unless it has something outrageous in it - I'll check you during negotiations as this conservation effectively give you his red letter issues]