Awesome moments in Dragons Dance

Lady Corrine Marsten wrote:
I must say, I was surprised by that. I understand the wider reasoning though. Corrine is hoping to strike some sort of balance, even though she wishes she could get away with being an agent of vigilante justice sometimes.

Unfortunately, Nathan is a product of the 15th century, not the 21st. He believes that sacrifices must be made for the greater good. Wars in Westeros have been started over less. He tries to strives for the greatest good for the least harm. In this case, the balance is quite firmly in the other direction. He honestly thinks one person is not worth the potential harm. Corrine has a very real chance of toppling House Daleford if she succeeds, and harming her own House if she doesn't. That means those who depend on those Houses will also suffer.

There is also the noble/commoner thing going on. There were other women in Red Darro's brothel that suffered just as much or more. Corrine would absolutely want to help them, but I do not think she put her House or another's at risk to do it.

I on phone so brief, but elements of the Joffrey/Aegon issue here: jerks to nobles, but reigns reasonable for peasants. Nathaniel has a different perspective to many other PCs. Will trade to expand later, but glad this catches some of the tone of the world.

Nathaniel Mason wrote:

Lady Corrine Marsten wrote:
I must say, I was surprised by that. I understand the wider reasoning though. Corrine is hoping to strike some sort of balance, even though she wishes she could get away with being an agent of vigilante justice sometimes.

Unfortunately, Nathan is a product of the 15th century, not the 21st. He believes that sacrifices must be made for the greater good. Wars in Westeros have been started over less. He tries to strives for the greatest good for the least harm. In this case, the balance is quite firmly in the other direction. He honestly thinks one person is not worth the potential harm. Corrine has a very real chance of toppling House Daleford if she succeeds, and harming her own House if she doesn't. That means those who depend on those Houses will also suffer.

There is also the noble/commoner thing going on. There were other women in Red Darro's brothel that suffered just as much or more. Corrine would absolutely want to help them, but I do not think she put her House or another's at risk to do it.

I'm feeling a bit unfairly criticised as a player. I don't think I am playing her inauthentically. She's young, idealistic, and naïve, and has inconsistencies like anyone else. Sorry you don't agree with it. The time period does not mean everyone thinks the same. And I was going to have Corrine ask how to help the women Nathan mentioned, but you seemed keen to end the conversation, so I left it. Not helping literally everyone is an unfair bar to set. And I don't think many here realise how easily influenced she is. If Lily hadn't been so upset, she might have felt differently.

You're not being inauthentic. Corrine is just a softy.

Gwyneth Drakeson wrote:You're not being inauthentic. Corrine is just a softy.

She is. Very much so. She has the odd moment of cold pragmatism, but they are rare. She's probably better suited to being a septa than head of a noble House.

Lady Corrine Marsten wrote:

I'm feeling a bit unfairly criticised as a player. I don't think I am playing her inauthentically. She's young, idealistic, and naïve, and has inconsistencies like anyone else. Sorry you don't agree with it. The time period does not mean everyone thinks the same. And I was going to have Corrine ask how to help the women Nathan mentioned, but you seemed keen to end the conversation, so I left it. Not helping literally everyone is an unfair bar to set. And I don't think many here realise how easily influenced she is. If Lily hadn't been so upset, she might have felt differently.

If you got the impression I am criticizing you for how you are playing Corrine, than I am sorry. In fact, I think you are playing a noble in Westeros very well. The fact that Corrine considers the common folk at all is a testament to her character.

Westeros is not, in any way, shape or form, a nice place. Peasants are starving, live in frightful conditions, are pressed into wars that have nothing to do with them, and are considered disposable by the vast percentage of the nobility.

My comments reflect the political realities of this period. I can absolutely see Corrine championing Lily Daleford. I just don't think she would do so to the same extent... and take the same risks... if it was Lord Daleford's scullery maid.

That, for the period, is completely authentic.

It was just the "
not the 21st century"
thing. It seemed a bit like it was hinting at anachronism. I see now that it was a misunderstanding.

That's fair. She probably wouldn't do the same, but she can't bring herself to ignore such things entirely. She'd sling some money at helping others, like giving to a poor house or sept, but she wouldn't do much more. And knowing that makes her feel guilty. So she sometimes takes on a crusade that actually doesn't help anyone.

Lady Corrine Marsten wrote:It was just the "
not the 21st century"
thing. It seemed a bit like it was hinting at anachronism. I see now that it was a misunderstanding.

That's a defense of my actions, not a criticism of yours.

I am fully aware just how how completely offensive it is to suggest returning a rape victim to her rapist. I only defend the narrative because it is reasonable in context and for the time period. I would not want anyone to think I consider rape to be anything less than a brutal and unforgivable violation.

Nathaniel Mason wrote:

Lady Corrine Marsten wrote:It was just the "
not the 21st century"
thing. It seemed a bit like it was hinting at anachronism. I see now that it was a misunderstanding.

That's a defense of my actions, not a criticism of yours.

I am fully aware just how how completely offensive it is to suggest returning a rape victim to her rapist. I only defend the narrative because it is reasonable in context and for the time period. I would not want anyone to think I consider rape to be anything less than a brutal and unforgivable violation.

Understood. Thank you for clarifying.

Nathaniel Mason wrote:

Theomore Tullison wrote:
Uhm, should I be concerned for my status as most evil PC?

Ok... so... well... I've just spent several posts advising Corrine to return a rape victim to her rapist.

Perhaps that crown on your head is not as firm as I first thought.

Heh, maybe. Though Theo has done nastier things for much less noble motivations. But if Theo does a heel face turn and Nathan keeps going down this road it could happen. In this case, Theo would probably advocate for Corrine to protect Lily and nail Lord Daleford to the wall, you know, that huge thing made out of ice, and figure out how she could do it in a way which benefits the princess. But I am very much unsure whether that would be out of a desire to do the right thing or simply because it suits his interests.

Nathan makes a very good point in one earlier post though, her father holds absolute authority over who Lily may marry, anything else is considered taking her by force. On the other hand, if she joins the silent sisters or becomes a septa...I don't think he has any authority to block it.

Corrine would much rather send her to the sept. She is just concerned about whether that is safe enough.

Nathaniel Mason wrote:I am fully aware just how how completely offensive it is to suggest returning a rape victim to her rapist. I only defend the narrative because it is reasonable in context and for the time period. I would not want anyone to think I consider rape to be anything less than a brutal and unforgivable violation.

And given Nathan's character, I half-expect him to find a way to prematurely end to Lord Daleford's rule and allow his son Adham ascend to replace him so that everyone wins;
no one believes the Greens/Blacks had anything to do with it, Corrine gets none of the blame, Lily is truly free and quite possibly married off to the Conningtons, and the house remains in control of the lands and smallfolk who live there. But probably still eyed by opportunists...

That would be the ideal outcome, anyway.

That would be more than acceptable, certainly. I am mulling over further ideas that we can explore. I have sonething tickling at the edge of my mind that could be helpful.

Loreia wrote:
And given Nathan's character, I half-expect him to find a way to prematurely end to Lord Daleford's rule and allow his son Adham ascend to replace him so that everyone wins;
no one believes the Greens/Blacks had anything to do with it, Corrine gets none of the blame, Lily is truly free and quite possibly married off to the Conningtons, and the house remains in control of the lands and smallfolk who live there. But probably still eyed by opportunists...

That would be the ideal outcome, anyway.

Lord Daleford is old. Old people die every day.

Lol good, I wasn't certain. Tears of Lys it is.

Loreia wrote:Lol good, I wasn't certain. Tears of Lys it is.

Isn't tears of Lys one of the more violent poisons lol.

hendy wrote:

Loreia wrote:Lol good, I wasn't certain. Tears of Lys it is.

Isn't tears of Lys one of the more violent poisons lol.

Yes. Yes it is. It's also ludicrously expensive. Only amateurs with too much money use Tears of Lys.

Three pinches of Sweetsleep and the victim fades off into dreamland and never wakes up.

Almost as effective, vastly more subtle and about 1/100th of the price.

Its also about as easy to obtain as aspirin compared to Tears of Lys.

Nathan uses it regularly (a few grains here and there) to deal with unruly clients. I think I have about 10 pinches of the stuff at the moment.

Yes. Yes it is. It's also ludicrously expensive. Only amateurs with too much money use Tears of Lys.

Three pinches of Sweetsleep and the victim fades off into dreamland and never wakes up.

Almost as effective, vastly more subtle and about 1/100th of the price.

Its also about as easy to obtain as aspirin compared to Tears of Lys.

Nathan uses it regularly (a few grains here and there) to deal with unruly clients. I think I have about 10 pinches of the stuff at the moment.

Yea I imagine a more subtle death would help in the situation . At least until I assume a maseter can get a look at the corpse.

hendy wrote:
Yea I imagine a more subtle death would help in the situation . At least until I assume a maseter can get a look at the corpse.

Sweetsleep is basically a barbiturate. It does not present any symptoms after death that could be detected in this time period. A Maester could make a Healing (Diagnosis) to detect the poisoning at the time of the poisoning (drowsiness, blurred vision, slurred words, etc.), but after death, dead is dead. Unless there were obvious symptoms, like Strangler, there would be no reason to believe that the man didn't die in his sleep, and no evidence to support any alternative.

This is the time period of leeching, bleeding and cutting holes in the skull, not forensic science.

In the 17th century, Giulia Tofana of Italy poisoned 600 men with arsenic before they figured it out.

Unless you're Cadfael, yeah, dead is dead. And, as the good Nathaniel says, old men die all the time. :;
):







[size=50:16omdaub]Valar Morghulis.

Valar Dohaeris

An interesting conversation (and a good reason to always keep at least one DP unspent), but perhaps better held in the Game Discussion thread?

Baelon wrote:Valar Dohaeris

An interesting conversation (and a good reason to always keep at least one DP unspent), but perhaps better held in the Game Discussion thread?

You're right. Fair enough.

I have no words for how much I love this:

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t=2976#p90494

Lady Corrine Marsten wrote:I have no words for how much I love this:

viewtopic.php?f=223&
t=2976#p90494

It's a splendid post, good character development and tone.

Lady Corrine Marsten wrote:I have no words for how much I love this:

viewtopic.php?f=223&
t=2976#p90494

Thank you. I really appreciate that.

Nathan has always had a strong religious side, which I have given many hints to over the course of the game. I thought this was an opportunity to share more of his beliefs, even if they are a bit unorthodox (as much of Nathan is).