Mechanical discussion

I guess. You could be easy to read but better at lying with Persuasion(Bluff), as not taking the time to look in the mirror so to speak, to study the tells of hidden motives. Sanity is definitely a factor.

Lady Corrine Marsten wrote:

Benedict Marsten wrote:*Might I suggest a singing, dancing, or debating competition for the non-combat specialist

Great idea! Corrine would take part in those!

Decided to put this here for if we decide to create a dancing competition. Throwing ideas around. I don't think debate competition is an option, as House Coldbrook has no maester. Daveth is our resident healer.

Perhaps Status(Breeding), and Athletics(Jump/Strength) + Agility(Balance)? One could dance with a partner and have them roll for one of these skill tests if they're better, or simply assist if they're likely to get a failure.

Status (Breeding) TN9: Crit fail, -5 points.
Athletics (Jump or Strength) TN9 or TN12: Declare the difficulty first. Crit fail, -5 points.
Agility (Balance) TN9: DoS times Status for points. Crit fail, -5 points.

Add Athletics and Agility results. Apply +1 per DoS from Agility check, +1 per DoS from the Athletics check (+2 per DoS if declared TN12), and +1 per DoS from the Status check if any. penalties from critical failure. Apply a variable penalty (maximum 6- depending on how people feel about your choice of dance partner(Green with Black? Status difference of at least 2? Be careful).

For Status 5 (2B Breeding), Athletics 4 (1B Strength), and Agility 3 (2B Balance) we might see something like this:
20 17(TN12) 14
Southerner+Northerner: -2
17+14 +3 +4 +2 -2 = 38

And that would be a mediocre score, as people are capable of pairing up with and sharing the best of both worlds, but you may consider for any number of reasons not to pair up with someone you hate for the sake of winning and looking awesome together (it may even further penalize you).

Rewards (Gold to top 3 with diminishing returns, can't go holding competitions to hand out Glory and XP)
First Highest: Improve disposition with NC of choice

Rewards, Storyteller event (same as above, but with better rewards)
First Highest: 1 Glory and 1B to Athletics or Agility specialty of choice)
Second Highest: 1 Glory

Nice work! It looks pretty good!

Sounds really cool, really digging the idea of having a partner.

I think for the specialty reward, I would narrow it down to just Jump or Strength under Athletics, Acrobatics or Balance under Agility, and add the option of Breeding or Reputation under Status - and that the partners have to decide which gets the reward. The highest scoring pair can split the Glory and specialty reward. Or choose one person to receive both, if you're feeling generous. Some of them want to use you...

I suppose Acrobatics and Reputation are also valid options for the Agility and Status tests.

I could see an interesting case for the job and Nathan making a suprise entry

Septon Arlyn wrote:I could see an interesting case for the job and Nathan making a suprise entry

I expect he does that on a nightly basis!

*Sid James laugh*

(Sorry)

Athletics and Acrobatics sounds more like professional mummers than nobles dancing. For the latter, it's definitely breeding, then I'm not sure if anything else really should apply, depends on the competition.

Something Finesse based, perhaps?

For what we generally consider dancing, I use Agility (Balance) + Athletics (Strength).

For Noble dancing, which usually amounts to a lot of walking, preening, and bowing at the right time, I use Status (Breeding) + Knowledge (Education).

I think the closest most Ironborn get to dancing is the finger dance .

Isn't Knowledge(Education) scholastic stuff?

One option is to do an obligatory Status(breeding) TN9, where failure disqualifies you (critical failure influence hit or some other penalty). Then you could follow up with other abilities to show off.

Theomore Tullison wrote:Isn't Knowledge(Education) scholastic stuff?

Knowledge (Education) is what you have been taught... and certainly formal dancing would have been an integral part of a 15th century Noble's education.

Read the descriptions of knowledge(education) and status(breeding), rather clear to me that how to properly dance falls under the latter and not at all under the former.

Status(breeding) is everything a noble needs to know about how to behave at highborn social functions and so on whereas knowledge(education) represents book learning, which most nobles also would have received.

I get what you're saying, but I'm not sure the purely physical component of dancing should be ignored. One can know how one should dance, yet still have no rhythm and be crap at it.

Like the [url=singing contest][/url] wasn't really about singing skill, the dance need not be about dancing skill.

Hmm. Assuming based on available technology a time period in the Caroline War period of the Hundred Year's War... so before the development of ballroom dances of the renaissance...
So probably more rounds and chain dances than couple dances.

Baelon wrote:Hmm. Assuming based on available technology a time period in the Caroline War period of the Hundred Year's War... so before the development of ballroom dances of the renaissance...
So probably more rounds and chain dances than couple dances.

Maybe not full-fledged or coming into its own, but people do dance together. Theo and NC Ayleth did a long time ago, not that I take that as a hint to the time period.

I concede, the inclusion of Status in the outline of the challenge I proposed would be self-defeating. So, going for custom >
finesse:

Athletics and Agility are for putting on a spectacle (which I'm sure the nobles of court will have none of that), but it would be a competition, people would be judging how good you are at dancing (though there's probably a lot less lifting, twirling etc), in addition to propriety and making sure you don't make any faux pas. Status(Breeding) sees that you are able to do dance adequately like nobility taught you. Agility (Balance) is for showing off. +1 to Status result per DoS. Maybe that could be increased if the character has Water Dancer qualities...

A failure that is impossible to raise to a success does appeal to the penalty of the "
why are you even here?"
response. Unless someone chooses to aid you. Critical: successes in a Persuasion test can reduce the hit one would take in influence or disposition.

A reward anyone can achieve by succeeding in all tests: increase faction score and/or increase disposition of a target NC.

One may cheat with Sleight of Hand to lower the score of a competitor. Or try to bribe! A critical failure would lower an NC's disposition or affect influence.

To involve more dice, I would say there are rounds, after which the judges eliminate the lowest three scores until there are just a few people left, not so few that the event looks like it's almost over but enough that the judges can keep their eyes on.

There's examples in the books about people being able to dance and talk to one another, suggesting that couple dancing of sorts happens, but I don't think the moves are notably elaborate or difficult.

Circle dances often have paired circles, or even circles of pairs, so that would not prohibit conversation. There were some mentions of partner dances historically, though mostly in the context of weddings. At least, that is what I have gleaned from brief conversations with others who study that period far more than I do.

is there any other book with canon characters' character sheets than A Song of Ice and Fire Campaign Guide? Just checked it and was little surprised with some characters stats...

If it's anything like West End Games' Star Wars canon character sheets, it'll likely have cheated with the stats.

well, I was rather surprised with 4 meaning someone is very skilled in attribute. 5s are pretty rare. In other direction also it was little surprising, for example King Robert, who has over 350XP more than character creation number for his age... xD That's why I was curious are there any other sourcebook, in which characters were improved/more balanced

Sadly, no. There are, if memory serves, two versions of the campaign guide with wildly varying stats. The one you are describing id, I believe, the first version. In that version they stuck to the stat descriptions on pgs 53-54 of the rulebook: that 2 is average and 6 is one of the best in the world. Even a 5 is quite exceptional. In the second version they (inconsistently) put characters more in line with what experienced PCs could look like: 5s and 6s are more common.

Neither version really captures the relative strengths of the various book characters very well. For one thing, they seem to miss the difference between Max Status and Status. King Robert, for instance, has a Max Status of 10 because he is king. However, he is remarkably inept at the various things that Status represents - the ability to manage a house, the ability to maintain a good reputation, and the ability to comport oneself with dignity and grace. Thus his Status is likely much lower than his Max Status... but in the campaign guide they gave people Status equal to their Max Status.

Also, they basically ignored the experience costs. The characters presented are experienced, not starting PCs.

well, I did some research and realized that there is something like GoT Campaign Guide aswell. Over there characters' stats have some more sense according to books. That's more what I was looking for :;
): thanks

is there stats for Bronn in this book?

Darron Greyjoy wrote:is there stats for Bronn in this book?

I'm afraid there is nothing about him at all there