Game Discussion

Even in a warrior culture such as this, weapons are not worn at all times (beyond a dagger, perhaps).
Take a look at the TV show - how often do you see Eddard Stark wearing armor and bearing Ice? Actually, I'm not sure we EVER see him fully armored. Take a look at some of the premier knights - Jaime Lannister and Loras Tyrell. Unless they are "
on duty"
, on a battlefield (or coming or going from one), or in a tourney you see them wearing shirts, tunics, etc, not plate. Armor is uncomfortable, it's heavy, it's hot, and it makes you stink. Armor is for the battlefield, not for court. Same with weapons. Again, we often see Eddard, Jaime, and Loras in unarmed (typically not even a sidearm). Why was the Red Wedding so effective? Because most of the victims were unarmed and unarmored. That's why guest right is so important, and why violations of it are considered so heinous.

Something to consider is that wearing arms and armor to a negotiating table speaks volumes that you may not intend - armor gives the impression that you fear or otherwise expect being attacked, bringing a weapon - particularly a blatant weapon of war like a greatsword - implies that you are willing to use force - deadly force, even - to get your way. If that's the impression you want to give, so be it. If not... well, I think there's room for some retconning, though that's ultimately up to Reader.

EDIT: ok, beat to the punch many times over.

well, I assume that we are at warzone. over here even arrival of Prince wasn't nice and calm event

I do admit Corrine would have look rather imposing if she received her guests in armor and a sword and bow by her sides :;
):

Baelon wrote:Even in a warrior culture such as this, weapons are not worn at all times (beyond a dagger, perhaps).
Take a look at the TV show - how often do you see Eddard Stark wearing armor and bearing Ice? Actually, I'm not sure we EVER see him fully armored. Take a look at some of the premier knights - Jaime Lannister and Loras Tyrell. Unless they are "
on duty"
, on a battlefield (or coming or going from one), or in a tourney you see them wearing shirts, tunics, etc, not plate. Armor is uncomfortable, it's heavy, it's hot, and it makes you stink. Armor is for the battlefield, not for court. Same with weapons. Again, we often see Eddard, Jaime, and Loras in unarmed (typically not even a sidearm). Why was the Red Wedding so effective? Because most of the victims were unarmed and unarmored. That's why guest right is so important, and why violations of it are considered so heinous.

Something to consider is that wearing arms and armor to a negotiating table speaks volumes that you may not intend - armor gives the impression that you fear or otherwise expect being attacked, bringing a weapon - particularly a blatant weapon of war like a greatsword - implies that you are willing to use force - deadly force, even - to get your way. If that's the impression you want to give, so be it. If not... well, I think there's room for some retconning, though that's ultimately up to Reader.

EDIT: ok, beat to the punch many times over.

No, this is worth reiterating and making sure we're all on the same page.

I'm happy for some mild retcons (although best for IC reasons to just apologise, say you came straight from patrol/training and leave you arms/armour outside) or for people to roll with it as deliberate belligerence (Walton, you can indeed offer the local conditions as an IC excuse, and others can react as they like).

Ereth - Sabitha Vypren likes wearing mail and Black Aly commands some archers, so between the two I've got what you're after.

Reader wrote:
Ereth - Sabitha Vypren likes wearing mail and Black Aly commands some archers, so between the two I've got what you're after.

Not to mention Alya Longshore is a good singer and axe wielder lol

Well, I already gave up sword to Ser Garred. It just doesn't matter that much- Ser Walton hammers nails with his forehead...

Ser Walton Dulver wrote:Well, I already gave up sword to Ser Garred. It just doesn't matter that much- Ser Walton hammers nails with his forehead...

Well, his head has to be good for something. :;
):

Ser Walton Dulver wrote:Well, I already gave up sword to Ser Garred. It just doesn't matter that much- Ser Walton hammers nails with his forehead...

Funny you should mention foreheads and nails, as the explosion at the Green Door Inn robbed us of the incident described at the link below:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Roger_Corne

Ereth Redwain wrote:I do admit Corrine would have look rather imposing if she received her guests in armor and a sword and bow by her sides :;
):

She wouldn't be so vulgar. :;
): She prefers the subtler ways of showing power. Like wearing the pelt of a huge beast she killed.

Ser Walton Dulver wrote:well, I assume that we are at warzone. over here even arrival of Prince wasn't nice and calm event

It's not a warzone.

Reader wrote:

Ser Walton Dulver wrote:Well, I already gave up sword to Ser Garred. It just doesn't matter that much- Ser Walton hammers nails with his forehead...

Funny you should mention foreheads and nails, as the explosion at the Green Door Inn robbed us of the incident described at the link below:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Roger_Corne

That's my man! :;
):

Hmm, any idea how many timeslots we should save for talk about treaty?

Just one.

Work busy, thread speeding out of control aragh!

I'd be surprised if House dulver gets through the day without a massive influence hit

Ser Jorah Holt wrote:I'd be surprised if House dulver gets through the day without a massive influence hit

Yep, the more level headed retainers should probably try to hold their nobles in check..

Walton, it seems like you don't know how etiquette works. You've been rude enough to justify being thrown out several times over, yet you keep going even when given fair warning. Are you trying to get thrown out? Because "
whatever you say"
is going to be the last straw. If you want to stay in that thread, you will have to adjust your post, because you have disrespected your host grossly and refused to apologise or alter your behaviour.

I'd say that that would be the best answer right now for him, after all it ends the argument quite efficiently. Hard to argue with a man who says he agrees.

OOC: I didn't think about potential bad manner, it just seemed logical to be dressed prepared for everything given the situation...

Yoren longshore wrote:I'd say that that would be the best answer right now for him, after all it ends the argument quite efficiently. Hard to argue with a man who says he agrees.

OOC: I didn't think about potential bad manner, it just seemed logical to be dressed prepared for everything given the situation...

Thing is, this is a peace treaty negotiation. Turning up in armour is a massive faux pas, at best. You're basically all saying that you expect to be attacked in that room. That's an insult to your host. The bread &
salt you are given upon entry is your armour. Wearing armour is telling your host that you don't trust them. I'm ok with people changing their posts to remove armour, but leaving it on will have you rightly treated with contempt.

And his response doesn't end anything efficiently. It is blatantly dismissive, and insulting, and will get him thrown out. You can't just be disrespectful to your host and expect them to let it slide. His best response is to profusely apologise, and then not talk to Corrine in a disrespectful manner for the rest of the thread.

to be fair, "
Whatever you say"
is dismissive, not agreeing. if a noble turned up and did that to Lord Dulver in his hall, he would be within his rights to have them removed

Ser Jorah Holt wrote:to be fair, "
Whatever you say"
is dismissive, not agreeing. if a noble turned up and did that to Lord Dulver in his hall, he would be within his rights to have them removed

^ This.

Wearing armour would probably not be a problem, it's a council not a fashion exhibit. Armor would take time to get out of and would make an indecent display, instead of retconning I think it would be fair to simply assume thst Yoren didn't have time to change after being out meeting with Davain.

Also the Dulver's camp is on Pennytree. That means that Walton would have to travel through lands where Septon Arlyn has already been attacked twice by bandits.

Also as Yoren says, is a pain in the ass to get into and out of armor. In speaking from experience here. Putting on a coat of plates in 14th cent style is a two person job, that's why knights had squires.

I could see checking weapons at the door, but armor is a fact of life in military camps.

Not saying that I think Walton's tone is a good one, but I think that's more of his character then the situation.

Yoren, it's nothing to do with fashion. It's about showing respect to your host. If you didn't get time to change, the first thing you should be doing on arrival is apologising for turning up in armour.
Also, everyone is travelling with guards. If you don't trust them to protect you while travelling, you shouldn't even be in the area.

And I know not of this 'indecent display'. House Marsten would provide anyone wishing to change a tent in which to do so, and you all would have squires or attendants. It's not nearly the big ask you are making out. Also, calling a PEACE TALK a 'fashion exhibit' is exactly the kind of dismissive shit that is causing trouble. Like I said, showing up in armour without a good excuse and a profuse apology is an insult to your host, as you are saying you don't trust them to not attack you or protect you from attack. At least Davain had the humility to apologise.