Character Creation Workshop

Minor details, I won't be combat oriented, but I will have at least some minimum combat capabilities, I am ironborn, just not so much like most players are.

Ser Jorah Holt wrote:ironborn trader sounds like a euphemism for raider :;
):

It's like cockney rhyming slang.

Kings landing rhyming slang perhaps

Going with a bit of talker with some money maybe?

Precisely, someone with some income from his trade, maybe a cohort to do the fighting for me or I'll just have Athelstan lol if he won't mind. Yet he is mostly a talker with an eye for making profit were ever he finds it.

Well, that depends on what's in it for Athelstan you can probably convince him.

Trading, eh? Isn't that paying the gold price?

Maybe, but there is trade between the Iron Islands and the rest of Westeros, so I really don't see the problem, now if it were jewelry or things like that, yeah he better pay the iron price.

Who is to say that his wares don't have a bloody history behind them

Riackard wrote:Precisely, someone with some income from his trade, maybe a cohort to do the fighting for me or I'll just have Athelstan lol if he won't mind. Yet he is mostly a talker with an eye for making profit were ever he finds it.

Athelstan only has an eye for making profit... the other one is lost I fear...

Yes, and you lost your way, and still have two eyes

I found this picture, do you guys think it fits Yoren?

If you were Dornish, yes it would

Athelstan wrote:If you were Dornish, yes it would

I agree, more pale, more rugged clothing, otherwise I think it fits quite well

Really? I think thats a quite good fit on skintone, Yoren has traveled a good lot, What I'm thinking is that It may be to young...

With some cropping, maybe:



Dunno if maybe he's on the old side.

No, I still think I confuse him with a Dornish person with that image. I do believe Corrine put up some decent avatar choices

any ideas about conditions for Personal Goal: Armour Mastery for example? That's what I have so far...

- Spend 1 Glory Point
- Win duels (number?)
- Finish 3 fights without Injuries and Wounds
- Get Half Plate or Plate Armour

being taught it by somebody who has it is always worthwhile (I believe Loreia and Jorah are both candidates.)
What about winning a duel against either of them? Would create an epic scene as the apprentice beats the master...

Yoren longshore wrote:being taught it by somebody who has it is always worthwhile (I believe Loreia and Jorah are both candidates.)
What about winning a duel against either of them? Would create an epic scene as the apprentice beats the master...

Being taught by another PC is an excellent goal as Yoren suggests. I'm all about goals that encourage PC interaction.

Thanks Yoren!

Yoren longshore wrote:being taught it by somebody who has it is always worthwhile (I believe Loreia and Jorah are both candidates.)
What about winning a duel against either of them? Would create an epic scene as the apprentice beats the master...

sounds great- something more? But to be honest, from mentioned 4+Yoren's one, I only don't have Half/Full Plate

Well, me, I've always followed the principle of putting up fun things to achieve as my VP scoring objectives.

Marq Mooton wrote:Well, me, I've always followed the principle of putting up fun things to achieve as my VP scoring objectives.

Theomore's objective lists for stories 1 and 2 was a terrifying sight, with the game all the better for it.

Hey so here is the character im working on I already submitted him to reader but other feedback would be great.

Going for one of the independent slots with the likely hood of joining one of the main houses.

Status im going for is 3 just to cut down on exp im spending and I should be able to fit in everything in that limit.

Was debating on adult or middle age but I went with just adult as the 1 DP left over should help.

Role was going to be a warrior to start and expanding out to rogue.

Background event I rolled 6 and got travelled across the narrow sea for a time.

Goal I went with was love for finding his brother.

Motivation I went with stability.

Virtue I went with devoted and courageous.

Vice I went with was cruel.

experience wise I spent most on upping endurance and fighting while the rest was spent on athletics, agility and awareness. 10 experience being set over for upping status to 3.

specialities I went with strength, fighting and shields.

destiny I invested 3 in fast, beserker and massive which left me with 1 left over.

Drawbacks I took disturbing habit as he is known to burn people alive to his god and haughty because he has risen above the hand he was dealt and if other cant do that then they deserve all they get.



Background:

Fionn was born on Dragonstone after his mother was chosen by a Targaryen to take part in letting the lord at the time bed her for the first night. Fionn a bastard by all accounts was not acknowledged as such and seen as just another member of his family in part due to it being seen as good luck granted from the Targaryen overlords and he was raised that his step father was his real father since it was outlawed to take part in the first night.

In the next few years Fionns family would expand from one child to five. Fionn would have two brothers and twin sisters. His brothers would torment him because of his odd hair colour and his sisters would make fun of him for being taller than most of the other children his age. At 12 Fionn was taller than his father and rivalling his mother for stature who was also quite tall. At 13 Fionns step father decided to take his family away from Dragonstone and go to the free cities for a better life away from the salt, dragons and sea. On the way to the free cities the boat got caught in a storm and was capsized.

Fionn survived on a piece of driftwood from the boat and made it to Essos but not long after arriving he was quickly picked up by a group of slavers and found his life taking another turn for the worst when he was traded from person to person as a oddity in part due to his size and his martial prowess. From personal bodyguard to solider and everything in between he seen the worst this world had to give and it left its mark physically and mentally. By 16 he was a hardened warrior who had survived a number of battles and surviving wounds that would fell other men.

Fionns time finally came when after being bought as a bodyguard for a merchant who worshipped R'hllor and teaching Fionn about the lord of light and taking him to the temple regularly Fionn studied thoroughly the teachings of R'hllor and became a devout follower. He in secret requested that if his master dies that the church purchase him so that he can become a free red priest otherwise he would simple be sold off again and stuck in a endless cycle of death and blood. When the answer came he bide his time until he publicly challenged his master in the temple to a trial by combat to prove who was the more devout follower to R'hllor. The merchant was backed into a corner as he couldn't back down from a challenge even more so in the temple of his god. The merchant accepted the challenge under the condition that he be represented by a third party the church stipulated that they are follower of R'hllor.

The day came for the trial and Fionn being a slave did not have any equipment. The priests presented him with a robe to cover himself and that was all he received. In his own time before the battle he doused his robes in oils in preparation for the fight. Once the time came he walked out to meet his foe and as expected the merchant had hired a professional knight to defend his honour the many in the crowd expected this to be a short fight. "
No clothes and not even a sword to his name not a bet id take."
and other such murmurs came from the crowd.

Fionn could feel the tension in the air but something was odd he felt very at peace with himself for the first time in as long as he could remember. The combat started and Fionn seen his opponent shuffle about from side to side waiting for Fionn to make the first move to get cut down but he was in no hurry to rush into things he wanted the knight to get frustrated and come to him and draw this out as long as possible. The knight in his full suit of armour was getting more and more tired trying to chase after Fionn and getting more and more frustrated until he made one misstep and it was all over for the knight. Knocking the knight to the ground with a shoulder barge after a swing failed to connect was all Fionn needed quickly he started to get the sword away from the knight now scrambling for the sword Fionn began to wrap the robes around the knight once secure he grabbed one of the torches and lit the knight on fire the flames consuming his entire person and cooking him alive. Fionn was the victor but he wasn't content with that he wanted the merchant to burn. The merchant representing everything Fionn has put up with since he became a slave.

With the merchant dead Fionn was bought by the church and was released from slavery pledging himself to help the church in whatever they needed. For the next two years Fionn would travel Essos with a group of other priests in search of artefacts for the church. This eventually lead him to the shadow lands where he protected his group from many different horrors eventually he adopted the surname Shadows in recognition of his adventures in the shadow lands. During one of the expeditions Fionn was gravely injured sustaining a head injury. Once recovered he had lost all memory of his family and his life before being a slave. From this he begged the lord of light to tell him of his past with this he stared into the flames and he seen a man that had the look of Fionn but lacking the silver hair and height clad in simple armour fighting. The flames the shifted and showed him different sights he had seen such as kings landing, Dragonstone, where he grew up before finally settling on a boat with the name on the side saying the sullied maiden at the local dockyard.

Fionn focused his mind back on the person he had seen in the flames and felt something he wasn't sure what but this person was important and he needed to find them. He set off the next morning at dawn and found the boat the sullied maiden. It was a trade ship that visited the most of the city's of Essos and Westeros. Fionn charted a trip to Westeros aboard making quite the bit of coin with listening to what the trader had recommended purchasing in the different cities before finally arriving on the docks at kings landing. From here he bid the trader farewell and prepared for his journey to find the person he seen in the flames.

Question for all of you, if you were the queen and you didn't like the First Night, how long would you wait before asking your king husband to abolish it? Personally I would not wait long after the war with the Faith Militant was over. A few years at most, which I'll grant, after all the act made most if not all the noble lords unhappy. People would be angry with her, and some would still practice it secretly in the North. I'll elaborate a little further below.

Role
Looking at the archetypes in the handbook, you can choose to be a mix of one or more roles. The Squire archetype is part Warrior and Rogue.

Drawbacks and Destiny Points
Since you were born a bastard, you get the Bastard-Born drawback and +1 DP. If you voluntarily take a drawback(including Bastard-Born) besides the one(s) you start with, such as with creation of your character, you gain a destiny point, and generally it's a good idea to have a handful, 2 or 3. You can't have more Drawbacks than Benefits, though. So, if you wanted to be Middle-Aged, you would start with a Flaw in Agility/Athletics/Endurance, and you could pick out 2 benefits and take an the Bastard-Born drawback to join the game with 2 DP.

Age and First Night
Time for a little history. This campaign is currently in 126 AC. If you were born from the bedding of the lord taking the First Night, you would have to be at least 23 to be born very late in the year 103 AC, during Jaehaerys I's reign, the king who abolished the practice of the First Night. His queen convinced him to do so, and she did not live past 99/100 AC. Furthermore, I am not so certain he would have abolished it that close to his deathbed. As old as you can be for an Adult, say 30 years at most, you'd be conceived(not "
born"
) as far back as 95 AC. To echo what I've said above, I don't think Alysanne would have waited until she was at death's door to convince her king to abolish First Night. At year 95, she's 59 and she's been married to Jaehaerys for 47 years. Nobody knows when it was abolished, so it's a little iffy for you to be a product of the disgusting First Night practice.

Unless Reader chooses to rule set a date for it in the campaign canon, I would say no.

Status
If Fionn was just a bastard son who was never accepted as noble of birth by his father, I don't see him being of a status higher than 2. He's a freeman, and he's unaffiliated, which means he hasn't sworn his sword to anyone. And I don't see why his mother wouldn't try to prove he was the son of the Prince of Dragonstone at the time, Baelon Targaryen. It's easy to identify someone born a Targaryen, and she and her son would be set for life because the lord is expected to provide for the boy's well-being, via money at the very least. To refuse, given how likely the prince would be the father, would not be good for his image.

Goal
If your goal is to find your brother, how likely do you think you are to find him? What would you do to find him? The character's goal, I feel, should be something your character would feel tested to ignore other duties or concerns to achieve, or even pursue with no true regard for anything else(not necessarily your life).

The tables for backgrounds and goals and motivations and virtues and vices aren't lists of what you must choose from, and rolling the dice is for if you'd rather let the dice decide, but they can serve as a template or a reference point for what you decide on.

Motivation/Virture/Vice
Having 2 virtues isn't bad. The idea that people have just one defining virtue and vice feels a little like cookie cut-outs to me. Why are you devoted to faith in R'hllor? How does stability motivate you? Do you find your lot in life boring, or do you see stability in what you want to achieve, such as finding your brother?

Background
Duels don't normally occur for the petty reason of measuring who's faith is bigger(unless you're challenged by someone petty, such as a Bravo). Perhaps when questioning whether someone's belief in their god is real, thus disrespecting them, but your master would spit in your face. You being a slave, he'd need not feel obligated, in fact would chastise you for acting belligerent, especially in view of the public. I will let someone more knowledgeable weigh in.

Revised in light of Loreia's post, to avoid redundancy.

To be honest, I'm not sure what role Fionn would be playing in the game - he has no political connections and with his cruel and violent ways would likely garner more negative attention than positive. We've already had one instance of a pyromaniac NPC;
he was executed. If you have a reputation for burning people alive, you cannot really expect a warm welcome (so to speak) from houses with a vested interest in maintaining peace in their lands... which is at least most of us.

Mechanics:
1) Seems like you are fairly heavily focused on combat. Just a heads up, being overspecialized can hurt you. There are plenty of people who would not hesitate to manipulate a big strong combatant to do something that they would rather not do themselves (if they even could). Especially one with little or no protection from a House. You risk setting yourself up to be a disposable pawn in someone's scheme.

2) There was previously a character submitted that had Massive and Fighting 5, and that combination was explicitly rejected;
so if you have both of those you may have to give up one or the other.

3) Fast may not work the way you wish in combat - with our houserule on disengaging from combat, the tactic of moving in and out of combat will generate extra attacks against you.

4) Status 3 is a knight or a minor noble. From your story, Fionn is not nobility. A former slave, growing up in foreign lands - that sounds like Status 1 or 2.

Story:
1) Flip side of point 4 above: First night was only applied to smallfolk, not noble families... but the Status 3 implies nobility (or knighthood).

2) The Prince of Dragonstone is the heir to the throne... but given your age (adult) that would have to have been Prince Baelon Targaryan (as Viserys doesn't have the temperament to have boldly broken the law established by his grandfather, and Rhaenyra would have difficulty fathering anyone, for obvious biological reasons). That would make you the current king's half-brother. We don't know much about the King's father (my character's grandfather and - theoretically - namesake). However, we do know that King Jaehaerys made him Hand of the King, which would be unlikely if Prince Baelon were the sort to brazenly break King Jaehaerys' own laws. Really, your description (physical and temperament) sounds more like Maegor, but Fionn would have to be at least 85 to be Maegor's son from his days as Prince of Dragonstone. Really, the whole first-night/Targaryan connection seems somewhat arbitrary and disconnected from the rest of the character.

3) If you are not a noble and not a member of a house, you would be at high risk of having the (quite unfair) legal system used against you. Non-nobles don't get to demand trials, even trials by combat. If you are accused of a crime, you could be summarily executed by the lord of those lands, regardless of what evidence is provided in your defense. Given that he is prone to breaking the law (by burning people alive), it does not seem like Fionn would really last all that long.

4) I'm not sure why Fionn was fighting in the temple of R'hllor? Red priests are a diverse bunch, but of the ones we know of, only Thoros was a fighter - an exception, not the norm. If Fionn threatened the merchant, wouldn't the merchant have just had Fionn beaten? Slaves don't usually get to threaten their owners... and it is unlikely that any master would want a bodyguard that is also a threat - kind of defeats the purpose of being a bodyguard.

Loreia wrote:Drawbacks and Destiny Points
Since you were born a bastard, you get the Bastard-Born drawback and +1 DP. If you voluntarily take a drawback(including Bastard-Born) besides the one(s) you start with, such as with creation of your character, you gain a destiny point, and generally it's a good idea to have a handful, 2 or 3. You can't have more Drawbacks than Benefits, though. So, if you wanted to be Middle-Aged, you would start with a Flaw in Agility/Athletics/Endurance, and you could pick out 2 benefits and take an the Bastard-Born drawback to join the game with 2 DP.

Can you point out the part in the core book where it says if you take more drawbacks you get extra DP as I cant find it.

Loreia wrote:Age and First Night
Time for a little history. This campaign is currently in 126 AC. If you were born from the bedding of the lord taking the First Night, you would have to be at least 23 to be born very late in the year 103 AC, during Jaehaerys I's reign, the king who abolished the practice of the First Night. His queen convinced him to do so, and she did not live past 99/100 AC. Furthermore, I am not so certain he would have abolished it that close to his deathbed. As old as you can be for an Adult, say 30 years at most, you'd be conceived(not "
born"
) as far back as 95 AC. To echo what I've said above, I don't think Alysanne would have waited until she was at death's door to convince her king to abolish First Night. At year 95, she's 59 and she's been married to Jaehaerys for 47 years. Nobody knows when it was abolished, so it's a little iffy for you to be a product of the disgusting First Night practice.

On dragonstone first night continued even after his death in secret according to the wiki http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Dragonseed

Loreia wrote:Status
If Fionn was just a bastard son who was never accepted as noble of birth by his father, I don't see him being of a status higher than 2. He's a freeman, and he's unaffiliated, which means he hasn't sworn his sword to anyone. And I don't see why his mother wouldn't try to prove he was the son of the Prince of Dragonstone at the time, Baelon Targaryen. It's easy to identify someone born a Targaryen, and she and her son would be set for life because the lord is expected to provide for the boy's well-being, via money at the very least. To refuse, given how likely the prince would be the father, would not be good for his image.

In the core book there are a few characters that have status 3 that could also fall under freeman such as a merchant and a prostitute. I would imagine being a priest of R'hllor would enable Fionn to be status 3. I never specified who was Fionns actual father as I dont have a clue who would have been at Dragonstone at the time. But yea anyone of Valyrian descent that lived on Dragonstone at the time would have been offered the right of first night as the people of Dragonstone see them as literal gods and the pairing of them being good luck. As it was outlawed I highly doubt Fionns mother would have tried to press his heritage if it was the king.

Loreia wrote:Goal
If your goal is to find your brother, how likely do you think you are to find him? What would you do to find him? The character's goal, I feel, should be something your character would feel tested to ignore other duties or concerns to achieve, or even pursue with no true regard for anything else(not necessarily your life).

Honestly probably not likely Westeros is a big place but that isnt exactly going to stop Fionn from trying. From making connections to lords of the land and physically searching for him and seeking guidance from R'hllor. Fionn has pretty much dropped everything he was doing in Essos in search of him.

Loreia wrote:Motivation/Virture/Vice
Having 2 virtues isn't bad. The idea that people have just one defining virtue and vice feels a little like cookie cut-outs to me. Why are you devoted to faith in R'hllor? How does stability motivate you? Do you find your lot in life boring, or do you see stability in what you want to achieve, such as finding your brother?

He is wanting to find stability by following what R'hllor has provided in the flames by finding the person who is his brother.

Loreia wrote:Background
Duels don't normally occur for the petty reason of measuring who's faith is bigger(unless you're challenged by someone petty, such as a Bravo). Perhaps when questioning whether someone's belief in their god is real, thus disrespecting them, but your master would spit in your face. You being a slave, he'd need not feel obligated, in fact would chastise you for acting belligerent, especially in view of the public. I will let someone more knowledgeable weigh in.

Probably going to change this.

Baelon wrote:To be honest, I'm not sure what role Fionn would be playing in the game - he has no political connections and with his cruel and violent ways would likely garner more negative attention than positive. We've already had one instance of a pyromaniac NPC;
he was executed. If you have a reputation for burning people alive, you cannot really expect a warm welcome (so to speak) from houses with a vested interest in maintaining peace in their lands... which is at least most of us.

Wild card. He has different paths open to him and with being independent he has a broader possibilities in what side he takes and gets a different perspective on the events that was the houses have. Less violent ever since he became a red priest resorting to violence to defend himself or protect people and yes he can come off as cruel with his uncaring attitude towards certain people. Fionn isnt going to be setting fire to every single thing he sees he isnt a pyromaniac. Well Fionn isnt going to be going out to local villages searching for peasents to kidnap and sacrifice to the lord of light but he might defend that village from a bandit attack and instead of asking for compensation for his deed he ask that the surviving members be burned alive to the god of light. But yea I understand where your coming from with that.

Baelon wrote:1) Seems like you are fairly heavily focused on combat. Just a heads up, being overspecialized can hurt you. There are plenty of people who would not hesitate to manipulate a big strong combatant to do something that they would rather not do themselves (if they even could). Especially one with little or no protection from a House. You risk setting yourself up to be a disposable pawn in someone's scheme.

2) There was previously a character submitted that had Massive and Fighting 5, and that combination was explicitly rejected;
so if you have both of those you may have to give up one or the other.

3) Fast may not work the way you wish in combat - with our houserule on disengaging from combat, the tactic of moving in and out of combat will generate extra attacks against you.

4) Status 3 is a knight or a minor noble. From your story, Fionn is not nobility. A former slave, growing up in foreign lands - that sounds like Status 1 or 2.

1) Yep its a weakness im fine with playing with.

2) If it comes to it I can change it but I dont really see whats wrong with fighting 5 and massive.

3) I could not find that houserule could you please link it and if it is the case is there any qualities you would recommend for this character?

4) As covered with Loreia status 3 seems to take in more than just knights and nobles such as merchants and prostitutes.

Baelon wrote:1) Flip side of point 4 above: First night was only applied to smallfolk, not noble families... but the Status 3 implies nobility (or knighthood).

2) The Prince of Dragonstone is the heir to the throne... but given your age (adult) that would have to have been Prince Baelon Targaryan (as Viserys doesn't have the temperament to have boldly broken the law established by his grandfather, and Rhaenyra would have difficulty fathering anyone, for obvious biological reasons). That would make you the current king's half-brother. We don't know much about the King's father (my character's grandfather and - theoretically - namesake). However, we do know that King Jaehaerys made him Hand of the King, which would be unlikely if Prince Baelon were the sort to brazenly break King Jaehaerys' own laws. Really, your description (physical and temperament) sounds more like Maegor, but Fionn would have to be at least 85 to be Maegor's son from his days as Prince of Dragonstone. Really, the whole first-night/Targaryan connection seems somewhat arbitrary and disconnected from the rest of the character.

3) If you are not a noble and not a member of a house, you would be at high risk of having the (quite unfair) legal system used against you. Non-nobles don't get to demand trials, even trials by combat. If you are accused of a crime, you could be summarily executed by the lord of those lands, regardless of what evidence is provided in your defense. Given that he is prone to breaking the law (by burning people alive), it does not seem like Fionn would really last all that long.

4) I'm not sure why Fionn was fighting in the temple of R'hllor? Red priests are a diverse bunch, but of the ones we know of, only Thoros was a fighter - an exception, not the norm. If Fionn threatened the merchant, wouldn't the merchant have just had Fionn beaten? Slaves don't usually get to threaten their owners... and it is unlikely that any master would want a bodyguard that is also a threat - kind of defeats the purpose of being a bodyguard.

1) Yep Fionns mother would have been part of the smallfolk.

2) Think I covered this earlier with it didnt have to be the king but anyone thats a Valyrian not necessarily the king at the time. It seemed like a fine idea for being born on Dragonstone.

3) Well yea thats entirely possible that he could have the legal system used against him and it would have more severe penalties for him. Looking on the wiki I couldnt find anything about westeros laws but yes I assume burning people alive wouldnt be seen to favourable by the local lords as they are the ones who are to give out the justice. As I said its not like he does this every day but he has been rumoured at least to do it.

4) After challenging his master at the time. Well going off the wiki there is there groups of slaves for R'hllor, they are priests, prostitutes and warriors now from what I got from that was they purchase them when young and they are raised as that group but with Fionn being much older than the child slaves they buy he was not eligible to become part of the fiery hand but with his martial skills he was still useful so he was made a red priest. The way im imagining it is that because it was in the temple and trials by combat are a accepted part of the R'hllor faith acording to the wiki he couldnt just dismiss it. Well up until then Fionn had been a loyal body guard.