Crime and punishment (discussing how to mete out punishment.

I thought he did order the attack on the sept.

I'm on board with him rebuilding the sept than serving as its warden for a certain amount of time.(Either three or seven. Three is more reasonable but seven hold religious significance)

Ereth Redwain wrote:I thought he did order the attack on the sept.

[url=Olyvar's confession][/url] states he did not.

Baelon wrote:

Ereth Redwain wrote:I thought he did order the attack on the sept.

[url=Olyvar's confession][/url] states he did not.

That he did, well done finding the link.

Corrine and Nathaniel felt a degree of public censure appropriate when we did the initial arrest negotiations via PM, including inflicting various drawbacks on Ser Olyvar Lucas.

My suggestions were some/all of:
- Ignoble
- Flaw (Status - Wretched)
- Reviled

Very open to these mechanical drawbacks being inflicted as part of the treaty at Corrine/Nathaniel's pleasure, unless anyone else is going to kick off a challenge over it.

I like that idea, though some may be hard for us to enforce. Many of the social flaws comes from all nobles reviling him, not just us.

That sounds reasonable. Someone should give a speech and roll Status, Persuasion(specialty), and Cunning/Language.

So lets get to work on figuring out what we are doing with Lucas. It seems this is our last topic of discussion

I vote for forcing him to rebuild the sept and serve as warden for a period of three year under the pain of death. All in favor say aye. All against say nay and how he should be punished instead.

Aye, along with the reviled status

He's a thief and a leader of bandits. I'd suggest that we should at least take a hand

Yoren longshore wrote:He's a thief and a leader of bandits. I'd suggest that we should at least take a hand

We could always ransom his hand. How much do you think is hand is worth to him? At least as much as a warfare ransom? :-)

You're starting to sound like Tully.

Gwyneth Drakeson wrote:You're starting to sound like Tully.

Or like a Dulver.

Hey I'm just looking out for my brothers in the set, centuries don't rebuild themselves :-) they need money and this is just one more way to get it
:;
):

Besides he would be more useful to rebuilding with two hands

Alright lets gets this vote on the matter of Ser Lucas handled so we can be down on the treaty. We have two vote aye and one vote nay. The matter of punishment is should he be forced to serve as warden of the sept for a period of three years.

Left to vote:
Corrine
Daveth

Yeah fine, though if he steps out of line again, we will not be so lenient.

Then it has been decided in favor. What is our next topic?

You're forgetting Dunstan and Jamys Kytley.

The former is favoring something harsher given the signals from reader, which means that Theo will suggest that it might be prudent to apply more severe punishment similar to what we gave Ser Humphrey, in the interests of showing the Brackens and their smallfolk that we take the matter that perhaps hold the strongest symbolic weight to them seriously. It's not something he'd be debating.

Eh, we already sent that with Ser Humphrey.
Humphrey didn't order the attack, but he implicitly condoned it when he participated.

Olyvar didn't order or condone the attack on the sept, or take part. We don't even have any evidence that he profited from it, do we?
The two cases are not comparable.

Here's how I see the votes so far:

Forcing Olyvar to rebuild the sept and serve as warden for a period of three year under the pain of death. (presumably with some sort of appropriate social drawback, such as Reviled)
Aye: 3 (Davain, Septon Arlyn, Corrine)
Nay: 2 (Yoren, Dunstan/Theo)

Daveth and Jamys have yet to vote.

Theomore is right, we nee atleast one more vote in favor for this to pass. We are just waiting on Daveth and Reader to make there votes. If the rest of the votes are nay then its backs to the discussion board.

Obviously if any of us decided to plan an attack on the church and were found guilty of it later, we would most certainly receive an appropriate drawback. At the very least, Olyvar's relations with the honorable sort, the faith, and the realm at large will never be the same. Olyvar Lucas is a second son. Therefore, a lengthy and arduous labor and duty sentence would seem fair, as a step down from execution.

And censure. Giving him a drawback like Reviled is basically that in a roleplay/RL term.

Sorry, I can't keep everything straight in my head, had too much else going on:
1) As far as we know, Olyvar Lucas set up that group of bandits as a deniable force, but did not order, participate in, nor have foreknowledge of the attack on the Septry. Is that correct?
2) What purpose *did* he set them up for? Meaning, who were they *supposed* to be attacking, instead of the Septry?
3) How much direct control did he have? Did he give them targets to hit, or was it 'here you go, Blackwood shields, go wild!'?

Daveth Coldbrook wrote:Sorry, I can't keep everything straight in my head, had too much else going on:
1) As far as we know, Olyvar Lucas set up that group of bandits as a deniable force, but did not order, participate in, nor have foreknowledge of the attack on the Septry. Is that correct?
2) What purpose *did* he set them up for? Meaning, who were they *supposed* to be attacking, instead of the Septry?
3) How much direct control did he have? Did he give them targets to hit, or was it 'here you go, Blackwood shields, go wild!'?

I think he just set them up for profit for himself. I don't think he had any knowledge of what they did, other than simply that they gave him a profit from it.

Ah, thanks.

Okay, then, I vote 'Aye'. While I feel a bit guilty over forcing those long-suffering priests to suffer him for three years, it serves them right for their ancestors using my gods as kindling they'd no doubt appreciate the protection, given recent events, and it's a nicely poetic punishment.

And thats a wrap!

I don't know if we want to handle some of the non-punishment peace treaty stuff in here too?
Myles and Kerry marrying, etc.?