Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

by **Theomore Tullison** Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:00 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aakwh3A3EIg

by **Baelon Drakeson** Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:06 pm

Considering AP and a decent likelihood of injuries from archers, that's basically just "you take a wound, or an injury and a fatigue".
3 Agility and Plate are pretty standard, even a perfect tripple-6 (14 after AP) would get an injury.
Taking a fatigue you would still need to roll a 6-6-5 or tipple-6 to avoid the injury - and if you had taken a fatigue or injury earlier the injury is just flat out unavoidable.

I'm rolling up my playtest run now, we'll see how it goes.

by **Lady Corrine Marsten** Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:10 pm

Theomore Tullison wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aakwh3A3EIg

Haha! That too! Laughing

by **Baelon Drakeson** Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:43 pm

Ok, yeah, I miss-read the archery gauntlet, those +4s are from assists but not coordinate. youch.

Spoiler:

With a lot of luck Baelon might be able to defeat ... actually, it doesn't say how many guards. I presume a base of 2.

So yeah Baelon might be able to win that fight with a lot of luck and resource expenditure - I did not use any DP or dailes on the above, though I probably should have. Even still, with likely a wound, injuries, a fatigue, and only 1 health... It would more or less take a miracle to win... and that was with a good war leader getting an average roll on the Warfare, so it's definitely not "warfare or die"... it's basically just "die". Evil or Very Mad

by **Lady Corrine Marsten** Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:57 pm

Baelon Drakeson wrote:Ok, yeah, I miss-read the archery gauntlet, those +4s are from assists but not coordinate. youch.

Spoiler:

With a lot of luck Baelon might be able to defeat ... actually, it doesn't say how many guards. I presume a base of 2.

So yeah Baelon might be able to win that fight with a lot of luck and resource expenditure - I did not use any DP or dailes on the above, though I probably should have. Even still, with likely a wound, injuries, a fatigue, and only 1 health... It would more or less take a miracle to win... and that was with a good war leader getting an average roll on the Warfare, so it's definitely not "warfare or die"... it's basically just "die".

So, if it's basically a suicide mission... why do?

by **Theomore Tullison** Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:03 pm

Judging by what Nathan said, it's probably at most reasonable to just have one assist.

The second DoS on the warfare probably only shaves off +1 from their attack rolls though. I'd hazard a guess that someone like Loreia should fare much better through that ordeal on account of high endurance and better AR.

by **Septon Arlyn** Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:21 pm

How about cover fire assist or warfare commander to provide an assist towards some of the roles?

by **Ereth Redwain** Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:21 pm

I guess I could test those with all rolls at TN 12.

Rolls:

by **Ser Walton Dulver** Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:32 pm

Healthy Dulver:

Piece of cake.

by **Theomore Tullison** Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:38 pm

Ehrm, I don't about that...looks more like Walton just got fucked. Then again, he probably can brutally slaughter a KoQ even IF he has sustained a wound, so...

by **Ser Walton Dulver** Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:41 pm

Walton with 4 fatigue:

by **Darron Greyjoy** Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:51 pm

TN for a coordinate combat action is 12 page 70.

by **Reader** Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:52 pm

If people are doping themselves up with milk of the poppy to attempt to avoid existing penalties or new ones, you can bet that they'll be slapped with the -3 to all tests penalty for a large dose noted in milk of the poppy's description.

by **Baelon Drakeson** Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:58 pm

Lady Corrine Marsten wrote:So, if it's basically a suicide mission... why do?

I wouldn't, of course.

Ser Walton Dulver wrote:
Healthy Dulver:

Piece of cake.

I'm seeing a lot more damage than that. Assuming you've got the same stats as at Wyl...

Spoiler:

Even Walton might have trouble starting that fight with a wound and 2 injuries - especially because he'd likely be taking another couple of injuries or even wounds in the first round, especially if he gets knocked down.

by **Baelon Drakeson** Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:01 pm

Darron Greyjoy wrote:TN for a coordinate combat action is 12 page 70.

There's a houserule on Coordinate, as it gave large houses a significant advantage over smaller houses.
TN 12 in combat still, but applies a flat bonus of 1/2 will.

by **Ser Walton Dulver** Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:04 pm

Then Walton will have to leave this one to amateurs. Next time he'll show You how TIGERS jump through walls...

Okay, so Coordinate would change something over there, not necessarily much I think.

P.S. No Baelon, Walton definitely wouldn't plan to climb the walls without shield. With Tower Shield he would raise his CD to 15- he can sacrifice 1D from his attack- 9d6k5+1 is still pretty strong.

by **Baelon Drakeson** Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:32 pm

Well yes, I suspect this could lead to a rush on Tower Shields. With a Tower Shield instead of his large shield, Baelon would have gotten to the top with nothing but a fatigue and 6 damage. Totally doable.

by **Aerion Storm** Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:38 pm

I think it even kind of makes sense to haul a tower shield along for such a charge (assuming you can climb with it, but we seem to be abstracting away the climbing part); protection from massed archers, etc, is what they're for, after all.

by **Ereth Redwain** Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:57 pm

I don't see climbing with a tower shield a very comfortable things to do, and probably slower than with other shields.

by **Aerion Storm** Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:59 pm

Right, but it could get you past the archers, at least. It might mean bringing the tower shield instead of another shield (and then ditching it before the "death from above" stage, which is where I picture the climbing happening)...but I could see it helping with running the archery gauntlet.

by **Benedict Marsten** Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:03 pm

Aerion Storm wrote:Right, but it could get you past the archers, at least. It might mean bringing the tower shield instead of another shield (and then ditching it before the "death from above" stage, which is where I picture the climbing happening)...but I could see it helping with running the archery gauntlet.

I like it. It will add two more elements though. Do we lug along our normal shields and of course bulk and its effect on movement.

by **Darron Greyjoy** Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:06 pm

Darron already lugs one about. If were going to factor in movement what effect will fast have?

by **Benedict Marsten** Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:23 pm

I meant in addition to the tower shield. Realistically we would not climb with a tower shield. So, carrying say a large shield on your back dropping the tower when you reach the wall.

Fast adds yards moved in movements, whereas bulk takes away from yards moved.

by **Ereth Redwain** Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:29 pm

I´m imagining scenes from Kingdom of Heaven movie when they siege Jerusalem, or the new Robin Hood movie when Richard sieges a French castle for inspiration or ideas, good clips of those scenes.

Robin Hood, small clip of the siege.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qX6JfFdpRw

Siege of Jerusalem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckKMPyDDKq0
-Particularly minute 2 when the actual advance and wall climbing/fighting begins. Climbing a latter one handed is not easy, and if the man above you falls it might also take you down with him.

Edit: I know movies are not 100% realistic, but at least they make some sense and can give good ideas.

Like how Richard is pushing his men onward while he himself is also in danger getting shot, boosting his men morale and giving orders I suppose.

Perhaps a PC champion could do something similar, but just like one big coordinate for other PC´s NPC´s?

Do we have a battering ram for the siege anyway?

by **Reader** Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:40 pm

Vhagar - great battering ram, or greatest battering ram? Wink

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