Draft: First Across the Walls...

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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Baelon Drakeson on Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:06 pm

Considering AP and a decent likelihood of injuries from archers, that's basically just "you take a wound, or an injury and a fatigue".
3 Agility and Plate are pretty standard, even a perfect tripple-6 (14 after AP) would get an injury.
Taking a fatigue you would still need to roll a 6-6-5 or tipple-6 to avoid the injury - and if you had taken a fatigue or injury earlier the injury is just flat out unavoidable.

I'm rolling up my playtest run now, we'll see how it goes.
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Lady Corrine Marsten on Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:10 pm


Haha! That too! Laughing
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Baelon Drakeson on Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:43 pm

Ok, yeah, I miss-read the archery gauntlet, those +4s are from assists but not coordinate. youch.

Spoiler:

Playtest Warfare: 6d6k4 17 vs TN 9, 2 DoS - no coordinate on archery gauntlet

Playtest Will(Courage): 3d6 11 vs TN 9 - avoid fatigue

Archery 1 & 2: 2#5d6k4+4 22 22 vs CD 11, 3 DoS each: 15-8AR = 7 damage (AR reduced by piercing 2) belon takes 2 injuries, has 1 health remaining.

Baelon takes a fatigue to ignore AP for DfA
Playtest Death from Above attack: 3d6+2 14
Playtest DfA Dodge, 2 inj 1 fatigue no AP: 3d6-3 14 (so close)
No damage from rocks; Boiling Water is 1 wound, Oil or Wildfire are defeat.

With a lot of luck Baelon might be able to defeat ... actually, it doesn't say how many guards. I presume a base of 2.

So yeah  Baelon might be able to win that fight with a lot of luck and resource expenditure - I did not use any DP or dailes on the above, though I probably should have. Even still, with likely a wound,  injuries, a fatigue, and only 1 health... It would more or less take a miracle to win... and that was with a good war leader getting an average roll on the Warfare, so it's definitely not "warfare or die"... it's basically just "die". Evil or Very Mad
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Lady Corrine Marsten on Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:57 pm

Baelon Drakeson wrote:Ok, yeah, I miss-read the archery gauntlet, those +4s are from assists but not coordinate. youch.

Spoiler:

Playtest Warfare: 6d6k4 17 vs TN 9, 2 DoS - no coordinate on archery gauntlet

Playtest Will(Courage): 3d6 11 vs TN 9 - avoid fatigue

Archery 1 & 2: 2#5d6k4+4 22 22 vs CD 11, 3 DoS each: 15-8AR = 7 damage (AR reduced by piercing 2) belon takes 2 injuries, has 1 health remaining.

Baelon takes a fatigue to ignore AP for DfA
Playtest Death from Above attack: 3d6+2 14
Playtest DfA Dodge, 2 inj 1 fatigue no AP: 3d6-3 14 (so close)
No damage from rocks; Boiling Water is 1 wound, Oil or Wildfire are defeat.

With a lot of luck Baelon might be able to defeat ... actually, it doesn't say how many guards. I presume a base of 2.

So yeah  Baelon might be able to win that fight with a lot of luck and resource expenditure - I did not use any DP or dailes on the above, though I probably should have. Even still, with likely a wound,  injuries, a fatigue, and only 1 health... It would more or less take a miracle to win... and that was with a good war leader getting an average roll on the Warfare, so it's definitely not "warfare or die"... it's basically just "die". Evil or Very Mad

So, if it's basically a suicide mission... why do?
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Theomore Tullison on Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:03 pm

Judging by what Nathan said, it's probably at most reasonable to just have one assist.

The second DoS on the warfare probably only shaves off +1 from their attack rolls though. I'd hazard a guess that someone like Loreia should fare much better through that ordeal on account of high endurance and better AR.
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Septon Arlyn on Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:21 pm

How about cover fire assist or warfare commander to provide an assist towards some of the roles?
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Ereth Redwain on Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:21 pm

I guess I could test those with all rolls at TN 12.

Rolls:

Warfare (strategy/tactics) TN 9
Warfare (Strategy) - Testing rules: 5d6k4 10

Will (Courage) TN 9
Will (Courage) - Testing rules: 3d6 8

Death from above
Agility (Dodge): 3d6 10

Lots of damage...

Reach the top vs. 3 Guards?

This is something Ereth might not do lol
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Ser Walton Dulver on Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:32 pm

Healthy Dulver:
PT Warfare: 3d6 8 extra round of gauntlet

PT Will: 3d6 13 avoid fatigue

PT Archers 3x Coordinate: 3#4d6k3 10 11 16 1B, 1B, 2B

PT Archers 1 and 2: 6d6k4+4 19 1dmg
PT Archers 1 and 2: 6d6k4+4 23 2dmg
PT Archers 3: 7d6k4+4 18 1dmg

PT Death from above: 3d6+2 13
PT Death from above Agility: 4d6-3 6 2DoS or 1DoS, if taken fatigue.
Don't know numbers for this one...

Piece of cake.

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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Theomore Tullison on Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:38 pm

Ehrm, I don't about that...looks more like Walton just got fucked. Then again, he probably can brutally slaughter a KoQ even IF he has sustained a wound, so...
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Ser Walton Dulver on Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:41 pm

Walton with 4 fatigue:
PT Warfare: 3d6-4 7 extra gauntlet
PT Will: 3d6-4 9 avoid fatigue
PT Archers 3x Coordinate: 3#4d6k3 14 17 11 1B, 2B, 1B

PT Archers 1 and 3: 6d6k4+4 25 7dmg
PT Archers 2: 7d6k4+4 26 7dmg
PT Archers 1 and 3: 6d6k4+4 22 2dmg
2 injuries and 2HP?

PT Death from above: 3d6+2 10
PT Death from above Agility: 4d6-7 8
1DoS, do probably one more injury.

Don't know numbers for this, but Walton would start fight on top of walls with 3 active injuries + 1 inactive due to milk of the poppy, 1 inactive wound and 4 fatigue, against KoQ and 2 guardsmen?
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Darron Greyjoy on Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:51 pm

TN for a coordinate combat action is 12 page 70.
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Reader on Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:52 pm

If people are doping themselves up with milk of the poppy to attempt to avoid existing penalties or new ones, you can bet that they'll be slapped with the -3 to all tests penalty for a large dose noted in milk of the poppy's description.
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Baelon Drakeson on Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:58 pm

Lady Corrine Marsten wrote:So, if it's basically a suicide mission... why do?
I wouldn't, of course.

Ser Walton Dulver wrote:
Healthy Dulver:
PT Warfare: 3d6 8 extra round of gauntlet

PT Will: 3d6 13 avoid fatigue

PT Archers 3x Coordinate: 3#4d6k3 10 11 16 1B, 1B, 2B

PT Archers 1 and 2: 6d6k4+4 19 1dmg
PT Archers 1 and 2: 6d6k4+4 23 2dmg
PT Archers 3: 7d6k4+4 18 1dmg

PT Death from above: 3d6+2 13
PT Death from above Agility: 4d6-3 6 2DoS or 1DoS, if taken fatigue.
Don't know numbers for this one...

Piece of cake.

I'm seeing a lot more damage than that. Assuming you've got the same stats as at Wyl...
Spoiler:
1st archer: 3 DoS, 15-9AR, 6 Damage (6 health remaining).
2nd archer: 4 DoS, 20-9AR, 11 Damage, 2 injuries to reduce to 3 damage (3 health remaining, 2 injuries)
3rd archer: 2 DoS, 10-9AR, 1 Damage (2 health remaining, 2 injuries)
DfA: 13 vs 4,  DoS or 13 vs 7 (with fatigue to ignore AP), still 2 DoS... against boiling water, that would be 10 damage, forcing a wound.

Even Walton might have trouble starting that fight with a wound and 2 injuries - especially because he'd likely be taking another couple of injuries or even wounds in the first round, especially if he gets knocked down.
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Baelon Drakeson on Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:01 pm

Darron Greyjoy wrote:TN for a coordinate combat action is 12 page 70.
There's a houserule on Coordinate, as it gave large houses a significant advantage over smaller houses.
TN 12 in combat still, but applies a flat bonus of 1/2 will.
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Ser Walton Dulver on Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:04 pm

Then Walton will have to leave this one to amateurs. Next time he'll show You how TIGERS jump through walls...

Okay, so Coordinate would change something over there, not necessarily much I think.

P.S. No Baelon, Walton definitely wouldn't plan to climb the walls without shield. With Tower Shield he would raise his CD to 15- he can sacrifice 1D from his attack- 9d6k5+1 is still pretty strong.
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Baelon Drakeson on Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:32 pm

Well yes, I suspect this could lead to a rush on Tower Shields. With a Tower Shield instead of his large shield, Baelon would have gotten to the top with nothing but a fatigue and 6 damage. Totally doable.
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Aerion Storm on Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:38 pm

I think it even kind of makes sense to haul a tower shield along for such a charge (assuming you can climb with it, but we seem to be abstracting away the climbing part); protection from massed archers, etc, is what they're for, after all.
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Ereth Redwain on Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:57 pm

I don't see climbing with a tower shield a very comfortable things to do, and probably slower than with other shields.
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Aerion Storm on Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:59 pm

Right, but it could get you past the archers, at least. It might mean bringing the tower shield instead of another shield (and then ditching it before the "death from above" stage, which is where I picture the climbing happening)...but I could see it helping with running the archery gauntlet.
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Benedict Marsten on Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:03 pm

Aerion Storm wrote:Right, but it could get you past the archers, at least.  It might mean bringing the tower shield instead of another shield (and then ditching it before the "death from above" stage, which is where I picture the climbing happening)...but I could see it helping with running the archery gauntlet.

I like it. It will add two more elements though. Do we lug along our normal shields and of course bulk and its effect on movement.
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Darron Greyjoy on Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:06 pm

Darron already lugs one about. If were going to factor in movement what effect will fast have?
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Benedict Marsten on Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:23 pm

I meant in addition to the tower shield. Realistically we would not climb with a tower shield. So, carrying say a large shield on your back dropping the tower when you reach the wall.

Fast adds yards moved in movements, whereas bulk takes away from yards moved.
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Ereth Redwain on Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:29 pm

I´m imagining scenes from Kingdom of Heaven movie when they siege Jerusalem, or the new Robin Hood movie when Richard sieges a French castle for inspiration or ideas, good clips of those scenes.

Robin Hood, small clip of the siege.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qX6JfFdpRw

Siege of Jerusalem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckKMPyDDKq0
-Particularly minute 2 when the actual advance and wall climbing/fighting begins. Climbing a latter one handed is not easy, and if the man above you falls it might also take you down with him.

Edit: I know movies are not 100% realistic, but at least they make some sense and can give good ideas.

Like how Richard is pushing his men onward while he himself is also in danger getting shot, boosting his men morale and giving orders I suppose.

Perhaps a PC champion could do something similar, but just like one big coordinate for other PC´s NPC´s?

Do we have a battering ram for the siege anyway?
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Re: Draft: First Across the Walls...

Post by Reader on Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:40 pm

Vhagar - great battering ram, or greatest battering ram? Wink
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