Athelstan - Iron mines

Public thread for discussing iron mine stuff. Please keep it all here from now.

Reader wrote:

Theomore Tullison wrote:Well, that does make his authority derive from the Coldbrooks and his actions reflect back upon them.

The plot thickens.

As my fiance's history teacher used to say "
we don't use the F word lightly"
but that's how westeros's (quasi) feudal system works. A triumph for Coldbrook as their men apprehend a known kinslayer for interfering with a royal investigation?

I'm going to be firm here because on of Athelstan's OOC posts was misleading, which disappointed me. He has interfered with the investigation and other PCs have effectively caught him. You lot are welcome to pull crazy shit, but have to face the music if caught. I fudged things to protect Athelstan in story 1 (and due to Lord Tully's political schemes), you were all warned the gloves were off.

A known murderer and bastard with little political support, few soldiers present - he looks guilty of a crime and is guilty of said crime. If he was an Npc he would be dead by now.

Playing the wild "
heel"
is fun, but you need to own it when things go wrong.

Athelstan may or may not be guilty IC and it's debatable how much direct evidence there is to demonstrate that IC. A number of different scenarios could have been chosen to deal with their findings and take action. They chose a very direct and lonely path that from my interpretation doesn't have them coming off IC as the paragons of virtue their actions might otherwise credit assuming they have real solid evidence to back it up. The feudal system may be harsh but they also could end up held responsible for igniting a war among the investigators when they were sent to broker peace between two feuding houses. Regardless of Athelstan's guilt or innocence they might be accountable IC for the way they went about dealing with it.

Just my two cents as a spectator, just like Athelstan I have no horse in this race... :;
):


(Just an edit that while reader confirmed OOC he's guilty I dont think anyone could be 100% IC)

Oh, I suspected that he may well have interfered in the investigations. But the OOC of what Coldbrooks have found and haven't found and whether or not Athelstan actually did the deed is not really a subject of debate.

Baelon has an IC reaction to whatever they have found. Corrine knows nothing, and thus has an IC reaction to what she sees. Athelstan knows what he's done and what he haven't done, and reacts accordingly.

Baelon (and the Coldbrooks mayhaps) seems to think, IC, that he is entitled to act as he just did. Given how westerosi law is subjective from the perspective of whichever lord is upholding it...this may or may not be the case. Either way, what Baelon just did is a political statement that will have political fallout.

The others have good evidence and Corrine passed IC rolls to be suspicious.

Still, I am going to say that it's extremely dubious that Baelon/Coldbrooks did not overstep their authority here.

Face the music, as you say. Athelstan might very well have to do that. But from the perspective I look at things given my playstyle, Athelstan is just a dangerous fighter that the big picture doesn't give a shit about whether he lives or dies, or sabotaged anything, or murdered anyone. Baelon and the Coldbrooks, however, has plenty of enemies that will seek to abuse any misstep they make, and I dare say that Baelon just gave them cause to make a shot at him.

Where he an NC, there would still be consequences for outright execution.

Well they may have more IC information but we have a clue that makes him suspicious but falls short of proving his guilt. I think it's important to keep what we know IC and OOC separate. We may know 100% OOC he's guilty but all or most pc's wouldn't have that same level of knowledge.
On House Drakseson lands there would be little question that might be enough to take whatever action Baelon preferred IC but these aren't House Drakeson lands, so a hard handed approach rather than a soft one sends a statement as does the fact Baelon himself is the instigator rather than a more perceived neutral party.
It's a great big murky mess that definelty spiced this day up and will likely affect the rest of the investigation greatly.

Theomore Tullison wrote:Oh, I suspected that he may well have interfered in the investigations. But the OOC of what Coldbrooks have found and haven't found and whether or not Athelstan actually did the deed is not really a subject of debate.

Baelon has an IC reaction to whatever they have found. Corrine knows nothing, and thus has an IC reaction to what she sees. Athelstan knows what he's done and what he haven't done, and reacts accordingly.

Baelon (and the Coldbrooks mayhaps) seems to think, IC, that he is entitled to act as he just did. Given how westerosi law is subjective from the perspective of whichever lord is upholding it...this may or may not be the case. Either way, what Baelon just did is a political statement that will have political fallout.

I echo Theomore's sentiment's. Also this is not happening in a vacuum. There are other houses in the same area and time slot. We should be able to react to what is happening as well. While IC I may not agree with tampering of evidence, killing a man's horse after he was going to show you what you IC demanded is a little harsh.

Luecian LongBow wrote:Well they may have more IC information but we have a clue that makes him suspicious but falls short of proving his guilt. I think it's important to keep what we know IC and OOC separate. We may know 100% OOC he's guilty but all or most pc's wouldn't have that same level of knowledge.
On House Drakseson lands there would be little question that might be enough to take whatever action Baelon preferred IC but these aren't House Drakeson lands, so a hard handed approach rather than a soft one sends a statement as does the fact Baelon himself is the instigator rather than a more perceived neutral party.
It's a great big murky mess that definelty spiced this day up and will likely affect the rest of the investigation greatly.

Again - I can see all the evidence and know what everyone knows. The accusers are not acting OOC.

Septon Arlyn wrote:

Theomore Tullison wrote:Oh, I suspected that he may well have interfered in the investigations. But the OOC of what Coldbrooks have found and haven't found and whether or not Athelstan actually did the deed is not really a subject of debate.

Baelon has an IC reaction to whatever they have found. Corrine knows nothing, and thus has an IC reaction to what she sees. Athelstan knows what he's done and what he haven't done, and reacts accordingly.

Baelon (and the Coldbrooks mayhaps) seems to think, IC, that he is entitled to act as he just did. Given how westerosi law is subjective from the perspective of whichever lord is upholding it...this may or may not be the case. Either way, what Baelon just did is a political statement that will have political fallout.

I echo Theomore's sentiment's. Also this is not happening in a vacuum. There are other houses in the same area and time slot. We should be able to react to what is happening as well. While IC I may not agree with tampering of evidence, killing a man's horse after he was going to show you what you IC demanded is a little harsh.

Think of the scene in Westeros - this man is a known kinslayer. Doing most things to him is reasonable. We're Athelstan slain, lord Longshore himself would shed no tears.

Reader wrote:Again - I can see all the evidence and know what everyone knows. The accusers are not acting OOC.

Is that a point we are arguing?

Because from what I am seeing we are mostly discussing what appropriate IC reactions to their IC actions might be.

Theomore Tullison wrote:

Reader wrote:Again - I can see all the evidence and know what everyone knows. The accusers are not acting OOC.

Is that a point we are arguing?

Because from what I am seeing we are mostly discussing what appropriate IC reactions to their IC actions might be.

Sorry theo on phone - I was trying to quote Luecian.

Wanted to be 100% clear that the other pcs in that scene were not acting on OOC knowledge. Indeed they've accounted for Athelstan's PC status and been gentler than you'd be with an NPC.

My point was more that to the other houses would not know IC of any of House Drakeson's evidence since they chose to not share it and gain support but rather act on this alone in a questionable manner given the circumstances/location. So to the other houses present IC, they would not have the response you qouted earlier as a possibility(ie be thankful they are apprehending a known kinslayer etc).

Can we just let Athelstan die, and pretend IC Baelon is not going to lol

Luecian LongBow wrote:My point was more that to the other houses would not know IC of any of House Drakeson's evidence since they chose to not share it and gain support but rather act on this alone in a questionable manner given the circumstances/location. So to the other houses present IC, they would not have the response you qouted earlier as a possibility(ie be thankful they are apprehending a known kinslayer etc).

They other houses do know all of this. His other crimes are known public history and they have done their own investigating in this story.

Please trust me to have told them off if they were acting OOC.

Athelstan - that's an acceptable and dramatic way to end this. A heroic charge or capture?

Bravo on owning your pc's actions. Previous character progress will not be discarded.

I'm really not saying anything about House Drakeson acting OOC if we can please just drop that. :;
):

I'm referring to the other houses having to act IC in their response as we can't use what we know OOC to react different since they did not share it IC.

Luecian LongBow wrote:I'm really not saying anything about House Drakeson acting OOC if we can please just drop that. :;
):

I'm referring to the other houses having to act IC in their response as we can't use what we know OOC to react different since they did not share it IC.

Ah, my mistake master archer!

I'll provide some OOC guidance on how people should react given culture and history (largely against Athelstan). However, given the political situation and Baelon's situation, some will spin it against Baelon.

As a preview: Many honourable greens (Ser Jon Roxton) would see execution as just). Some politically minded greens will paint it as an injustice. NPC reactions and an OOC post from me will help guide things.

OOC I own it IC he will nevrr admit it and die first, just like OOC truth, we dont wanna kill him but IC its very likely lol, not hard to say it. Yet easy to deny and act it IC. So Athel will die when he grabs his axe I know this, and he knows why. Will they find the wilfire with me dead?

Athelstan wrote:OOC I own it IC he will nevrr admit it and die first, just like OOC truth, we dont wanna kill him but IC its very likely lol, not hard to say it. Yet easy to deny and act it IC. So Athel will die when he grabs his axe I know this, and he knows why. Will they find the wilfire with me dead?

Athelstan's final victory - taking the secret to his grave and dying bravely!

Athelstan and I will work up a death post and then unlock the thread.

House Dulver can arrive as the arrows fly.

I will shift some timeline stuff so Athelstan's d3 other actions still take place.

sorry, while I have been managing to read threads, I've been busy at home and not been able to post as I would have liked.

I did suggest to Corrine that she may wish to intercede a bit more, but perhaps might have been clearer and stronger in that suggestion - a chance lost there.

Ser Jorah would have interceded when it started to progress to actual violence and insist that Athelstan be taken back somewhere and a proper accounting be made before things deteriorated further, but alas that is also a missed opportunity unless we want to walk this back a bit.

It was not going to happen, Baelon was not IC going to do that end when Athelstan only choice was death, he will die a martyr, more importan if IC jorah has only circumstancial evidence what will he do after he watches him murder him? Is Daveth next if their goals dont align? Corrine also would not be happy how once his charade of kings justice had dropped and turned personal.

Can Corrine live with watching his murder, knowing all they had was suspicions?

Well I'm expecting him to rise as a zombie,white walker or some form of reincarnation to help me still fight the Brothers Wylde! :;
):

You'll make a new character? Perhaps on House Kytley? That's where I intend to build my next PC if Raynald dies. heh

Athelstan wrote:It was not going to happen, Baelon was not IC going to do that end when Athelstan only choice was death, he will die a martyr, more importan if IC jorah has only circumstancial evidence what will he do after he watches him murder him? Is Daveth next if their goals dont align? Corrine also would not be happy how once his charade of kings justice had dropped and turned personal.

Baelon was not?

Ser Raynald Dulver wrote:You'll make a new character? Perhaps on House Kytley? That's where I intend to build my next PC if Raynald dies. heh

We already have an idea for Athelstan's next character.

Also Baelon had only circumstancial evidence, yet willing to not talk no matter what I said IC, but OOC he was trying to talk lol. Except I think the definition was I intrigue you or you grovel and I still decide if you lie or not and kill you at another time. Like IC Athel said all you had to do is ask without threats.

Edit: pilss taken going to rest. I will still participate in the fight Mr. Hunter