Athelstan - Iron mines

He was about to take them to the wilfire, he already gave a short explanation of the things in the mines like markings were wild fite traces and were he found it.

Edit: What if my answers are not "
satisfying"

Athelstan wrote:I live, they find me I die again lol

No, because they have no real authority, people really just want to talk to you. You are that popular guy that people gets offended by if he doesn't wish to talk :;
):

Right, well, first things first.

First, he'd like to take Athelsten into custody, to secure him and make sure there's no funny business. Second, the questions are asked under controlled conditions. Third, your testimony is investigated.

That's the plan Baelon's trying to enact. Whether or not it's a good plan, or one he ought to be enacting, or is allowed to enact is for other people to decide...and that's part of the game too. But in this moment, right here and now, that's what's happening.

Lets say ai stay and talk, he dont like my answer I probably die

He's not looking for a particular answer. Just the truth.

I speak OOC of course, since I feel the -real- issue underlying all this is an OOC one.

Except you fail to mention is under pain of death, and he has to like my answers. He could have just rode and take me somewere to question, not how he did.

IC Athelstan doesnt know, but Ill answer the questions IC like Athelstan did ask without threats.

OOC HE KNOWS, IC not as far as I know

Athelstan wrote:I live, they find me I die again lol

Well, I don't see what you want then. You want some assurance that they won't come after you? That isn't possible, man. I mean, you have three options: surrender, die, or gain DP to burn it and live. If somehow they try to kill you after, then you come back to the same point, but at least the game will be moved towards and this current situation will be resolved.

He doesn't have to like your answers. He just needs to be satisfied that they're accurate. Hence the investigation part of the triptych.

The pain of death part is strictly to convince Athelsten to allow himself to be taken into custody. He's suspect #1, based on evidence we've uncovered. That doesn't make him automatically guilty, but it DOES mean he's considered a 'high risk' suspect, and is being taken very seriously.

Just riding somewhere with you and asking questions leaves a -great deal- to chance, and we absolutely cannot afford to do that. Anyone suspected of what we're currently discovering would be treated the same way.

As for what we know IC...you don't know what we know.

We know quite a bit. And we're learning more. Make no assumptions.

Athelstan wasnt running and all he said was just ask withouy threats. Those arent going anywere.

As noted many times, the actions of the accusers here are reasonable IC. They have evidence that has convinced them.

There's a league of difference between 'not running right now' and 'peacefully being taken into custody.'

The gravity of the situation means we're asking for the latter.

That is fine, all athelstan wants is to drop threats and talk. Otherwise he wont feel cooperative to Baelon.

Except there was no taking.

Edit:I want Athelstan alive, but death threats to ironborn arr not the way to go. If he had approached a tad different perhaps.

Arr, well, then it becomes an IC matter of cultural mismatch, which is realistic enough.

Perhaps a calmer head might take that moment to step in...and ease things up a bit?

*nudges Corrine* :;
):

Besides, you fail to acvount Athelstan hate for Baelon, which makes me more stubnorn.

Gwyneth Drakeson wrote:Arr, well, then it becomes an IC matter of cultural mismatch, which is realistic enough.

Perhaps a calmer head might take that moment to step in...and ease things up a bit?

*nudges Corrine* :;
):

I'm waiting for Reader to unlock the thread.

Athelstan wrote:Besides, you fail to acvount Athelstan hate for Baelon, which makes me more stubnorn.

Yeah, well, it's not reciprocated...but it's an IC factor so it's all good. Up to you to decide how to deal with that particular element.

Its part of his RP already lol, hence why he sees it that way, and thinks the worse IC. Disposition Malicious...

If we want a unsubtle end, Jorah could step in and knocks you out to stop you being filled with arrows as he does kinda like you

That sound fine lol

sounds like we have a plan as blatently neither A or B will back down

Thank fuck.

it's a reasonable plan, and one that ends in substantially more drama of a lively kind rather then something out of the death of an individual.

..and now I'm in the position Yoren was in earlier - gone for a while and BOOM. Posts galore.
Six pages later...

There has been a lot of talk about my (player) motivations and statements and my (IC) motivations and statements. So first, a few points of clarification. This is all OOC talk, normally I try not to put too much OOC information about IC actions out because I feel that a lot of drama and excitement comes from partial information situations... but a this point I fell I must.

1) Baelon (IC) does not hate Athelstan (IC). Baelon (IC) does not want to kill Athelstan (IC). Please stop saying things like that which I have denied over and over again. It is insulting. It means that I am OOC lying and I find that charge very offensive. Note that IC Baelon's disposition in the intrigue was Dislike, not Malicious. Note that if IC Baelon just wanted you dead, we have enough evidence that when combined with what you have already said IC, IC Baelon would feel justified in executing you on the spot... but he does not want to.

2)IC Baelon meant the threats (persuasion not deception intimidate tests), but IC Athelstan's defiance has forced him to re-evaluate - killing IC Athelstan won't get IC Baelon what he wants. Yes, he was trying to force a confession. However, that was largely so that others (notable Corrine as the head of the investigation) would be forced to take action - not because the other evidence isn't good enough, but because a confession would remove any grounds of objection or influence by others (Yoren, mostly, but others might get involved opportunistically) later on down the road. When evidence has been tampered with once, there are no guarantees that it won't be again. Something else is needed.

3) Here is a peaceful way out that IC Baelon would approve of.

1. A third party (Ser Markus, Ser Jorah, etc.) disarms and binds Athelstan, so he cannot flee or attack (or OOC Athelstan agrees not to, and that is IC enforced).[/*3kwd9wki]
   
2. The previous intrigue is resumed, a new one with a new primary (presumably Corrine, but not necessarily) is begun, or Athelstan immediately accepts the yield counteroffer that was previously made.[/*3kwd9wki]

If I have IC Baelon do anything untoward (attack Athelstan while disarmed/bound, etc.) during that resolution, Reader has complete and total permission to retcon it out and have IC Baelon fatally struck by lightning, or any other punishment deemed appropriate.

If we need IC Baelon to do or say something to arrange this outcome, let me know, and unless it is totally and irreconcilably out of character, I will have him do so.

What would NOT be an acceptable peaceful solution would be anything that includes Athelstan walking away without being thoroughly interrogated. Even a direct order by Corinne would not be sufficient to get Baelon to agree to that - her authority over him only extends so far - he's not sworn to her any more, and being in charge of the royal investigation does not supersede his right/obligation to do what he feels is necessary to protect himself, his House, and the royal overseer.

There are of course several other possible outcomes...

1) I withdraw my previous OOC declaration that Drakeson arrows and blades would not draw Athelstan's blood and IC Baelon goes through with the plan already stated in the locked IC thread - shoot to cripple. I now know OOC that the biggest reason I OOC didn't want to do this is no longer an issue - I was concerned that Athelstan would burn a DP to choose the death outcome. I'm willing to defeat and choose the maim outcome as many times as I need to to get Athelstan to confess - but I will not kill him (and we've got a pair of excellent healers on hand who can ensure he won't die from his wounds).

2) Athelstan is subdued (possibly at a blood cost to Baelon), and something similar to the above plan takes place.

3) Athelstan takes his own life before we can interrogate him.

4) Athelstan somehow manages to kill/defeat Baelon, the bloodriders, and anyone else who tries to stop him. An attempt at this is likely to turn out to be option 1 or 2.

As far as I can tell, those are the only five options - 1 peaceful and 4 bloody (or potentially so).

That is pretty much to resolve here, but the end like me and Reader have discussed is the same for Athelstan, which I have seen for a while, and Reader agrees that this ends in 2 ways for me, Dead or the Black, regardless of the Path I can choose. That is why the blaze of Glory cinematic exit was chosen, and why I just say it's the death of Athelstan more or less.

If I quit the intrigues to avoid telling the OOC truth about planting evidence which is the smears in the Blackwood mines and Bracken than I am guilty, you will take it as refusing to cooperate, and things will go wrong very quick. Athelstan will quit every time he suspects things are not going his way, and will never confess to it, he can speak everything else. No man ever accepted his crimes if he is only suspicious and Athelstan won't be any different, knowing his fate regardless is death or the take the black, which is basically getting him out in another way that is not death.

I just would like to add a few more:
5) would be Daveth stepping in.
6) would be the trial option, although that may be covered by your second suggestion.
7) third party Pc (Dulver) involvement, which again could take many directions.
third party Npc involvement. (bracken, blackwood or early royal investigators can come asking what's going down).
9) the deus ex makina of kaboom goes wildfire, (as a priest of R'llor I approve )

There's probably a lot more, and all of these have ripple effects, i just wanted to add some...