Ask the narrators

Loreia Merrgal wrote:So Corrine is writing a letter to Gareth. Baelon was recently Gareth, but now he's not, so I'm wondering if Gareth the NC was renamed for the PC, or if Baelon is a completely different person? Cuz that determines if Corrine's letter is to someone away in the Vale, or to someone currently attending the tourney.

This is the exact confusion that led me to change Baelon's name - he used to be Gaerys Waters, but I was concerned that he might be confused with Gareth Stone or Garret Snow. Too many bastards with similar first names.

Lady Corrine Marsten wrote:I didn't know that. I'm rather confused now. I was under the impression Gareth was a separate person who is in the Vale. The way I've been playing Corrine, she definitely doesn't currently have a crush on Baelon.

Don't worry, you're good - Gareth is still a separate character! I'm not sure if he'd be at the tourney or back at Hartshorn. Well, he's our steward, so he may have been left in charge of the domestic affairs while we are gone.

I'm sure Reader said he'd be stewarding at Hartshorn, which makes more sense. Even if he wasn't the steward, Isobel would be making an effort to keep him and Corrine apart.

Oh, why's that? Cuz he's a bastard?

I think it's because she has a girly crush on him, but they're sorta related. Isobel probably wouldn't deem him worthy anyway.

Ooh, you're right. He might even be your half brother...

I think he's Gwyn's half-brother, which makes him a first or second cousin, I think. Assuming Corrine's official parentage is correct.

It's not -confirmed- he's my half-brother. There's just some circumstantial evidence to the effect.

Lady Corrine Marsten wrote:Assuming Corrine's official parentage is correct.

Not that anyone has any reason to doubt that...

Baelon wrote:

Lady Corrine Marsten wrote:Assuming Corrine's official parentage is correct.

Not that anyone has any reason to doubt that...

Except a certain maester, who was swiftly ejected from the service of the House.

Baelon wrote:

Lady Corrine Marsten wrote:Assuming Corrine's official parentage is correct.

Not that anyone has any reason to doubt that...

Oh you never know. Some might. :;
):

I'd like some kind of 'official' ruling on titles, since it's been specifically raised in [url=a thread][/url].

The matter was raised OOC [url=here][/url], with Ser Baelon (via PM)

Baelon wrote:Only the lord should be called 'lord', even an heir is still only 'Ser' or 'Master'.

and Ser Theomore (in [url=a prior post][/url])

Theomore Tullison wrote:A non-knighted nobleman might be addressed as "
master"
for example, should one wish to be polite.

Claiming 'Master' as being a valid title for a non-Knighted noble son, while Lord Tullyson said this:

Duncan Tullyson wrote:And i must add, no way could Daveth be called a Master - I just shuffled through my book, literally all the lord sons are addressed as Lord -insert first name -. master is for master at arms, hunt, etc.

So, what is the GM's decision? I don't mind changing, (despite rather liking 'Master' as a polite way of saying "
Don't call me 'Ser', I work for a living"
), but I'm not going to if there's no point.

This usage sometimes extends to those wishing to show courtesy to a junior member of a noble House during conversation, by addressing them with the title of Lord in conjunction with their personal name[15]. The title of Lord in conjunction with the House name is properly reserved for the legal head of the House. - this is from the wiki.

Plus, everyone seem to call the sons of a Lord by Lord - First Name- in the books. As it says in the link Lord - Last Name - is the head of that noble house only.

I just did a search in the Feast pdf and no one seem to call anybody but master of coins and such Master. It's a rather odd to call you Master as I said before, don't know why would people do that. Lord Daveth you are but not Lord Coldbrook:)

But Reader will decide of course.

And I'm Dunstan Tullison not Tullyson:)

Daveth Coldbrook wrote:

Duncan Tullyson wrote:And i must add, no way could Daveth be called a Master - I just shuffled through my book, literally all the lord sons are addressed as Lord -insert first name -. master is for master at arms, hunt, etc.

So, what is the GM's decision? I don't mind changing, (despite rather liking 'Master' as a polite way of saying "
Don't call me 'Ser', I work for a living"
), but I'm not going to if there's no point.

One issue there is that those of lower status will often use 'lord' as an honorific for those of higher status;
smallfolk will often even address hedge knights as 'lord'. It's safer to overestimate a person's status than underestimate it.

The real question would be what would someone of higher status (say, Gorman Tully), who knows your status, call you?

But at the same time:

"
Begging your forgiveness, m'lady, but Lord Edmure says no one is to see the Kingslayer without a writing from him, with his seal upon it."


"
Lord Edmure? Has my father died, and no one told me?"
..

Yeah I see no reason why he wouldn't call anyone from a lordly family, especially a son, Lord - first name- unless he is an accomplished knight, so he would be a Ser or has a different function, say master of coin, so he would be a Master.

Yeah Edmure you can call either Lord Edmure or Lord Tully. Daveth, Tyrion, Stannis, Renly, Garlan and others you would call by Lord and than a first name.

Dunstan Tullison wrote:Yeah Edmure you can call either Lord Edmure or Lord Tully. Daveth, Tyrion, Stannis, Renly, Garlan and others you would call by Lord and than a first name.

But it seems like it's somehow not a(n entirely) proper way to address them since Catelyn comments "
Lord Edmure? Has my father died, and no one told me?"
? Although that could have been her just being bitter.

To be honest, I'm not sure, just confused

Ser Fendrel Bartheld wrote:

Dunstan Tullison wrote:Yeah Edmure you can call either Lord Edmure or Lord Tully. Daveth, Tyrion, Stannis, Renly, Garlan and others you would call by Lord and than a first name.

But it seems like it's somehow not a(n entirely) proper way to address them since Catelyn comments "
Lord Edmure? Has my father died, and no one told me?"
? Although that could have been her just being bitter.

To be honest, I'm not sure, just confused

I believe you are right... it is not 'proper' to address Edmure as 'lord' at the time of that quote, as his father is still alive.
It's a great little exchange to show that what is 'proper' is not always (or even typically, perhaps) done.

As usual, one ought to go to the source:

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1203/

As I see it, the title "
lord"
-- when used formally, and not simply as an honorific --conveys not only prestige, but certain legal rights as well. The right of pit and gallows, as they were once called, for instance -- i.e. authority to hang people and toss them into dungeons.

Book has plenty of examples of the honorific being used, sometimes with reactions like that of Cat, other times not.

For simplicity:

Master seems fine for someone of Daveth's station.

Lord +surname = main Lord only, implies legal rights
Lord + firstname = just being polite, appropriate for Tyrion etc

Aware this clashes with the Edmure example - I'll assume Catelyn is snapping/stressed.

I hold a trial by combat, and this is what all the posts are about? :;
):

Well, one might technically argue that "
master"
as a formal title denotes the equivalent of a landed knight. Galbart Glover being one such example iirc. Interesting thing being that lord is not a protected title, like knight.

And Cat's reaction might stem from Eddmure being spoken of as if he were a lord. Might be she wouldn't blink if he was addressed with mylord.

Reader wrote:
I hold a trial by combat, and this is what all the posts are about? :;
):

One must always remember how important proper breeding is... :8-):

Theomore Tullison wrote:And Cat's reaction might stem from Eddmure being spoken of as if he were a lord. Might be she wouldn't blink if he was addressed with mylord.

This is very possible.

Reader wrote:For simplicity:

Master seems fine for someone of Daveth's station.

Lord +surname = main Lord only, implies legal rights
Lord + firstname = just being polite, appropriate for Tyrion etc

Aware this clashes with the Edmure example - I'll assume Catelyn is snapping/stressed.

I hold a trial by combat, and this is what all the posts are about? :;
):

I like simplicity.

Thanks to you and all who contributed.

Does the jousting threads counts as one timeslot if you're in them?

Just one timeslot per joust from the range of options provided (any afternoon slot). Think everyone should have two today. Hopefully that leaves enough time and flexibility for various other meetings - give me a shout if you guys think that eats in to your roleplay/negotiation too much.